Still in Mexico and having a great time...
Dear JB:My sample size isn't dozens and dozens, but I do DM for more than one group. A really sad pattern I've seen from my players over the last few years is fewer and fewer players having actually read the fucking rules. And I don't mean cover to cover. I mean, they haven't read the just the main section of rules for Ability Scores, Combat, and Spells. Those 20 ish pages give you everything you need to actually play DnD beyond reading your personal race and class, and yet more and more players (especially if they are 25 y.o. or younger in my experience) just haven't actually sat down and read the rules. This is doubly true if they got their first exposure through a DnD show or podcast. And this isn't just for new players either. I've had people playing for months and months who, even after deciding they like DnD and want to keep playing have never actually figured it out. Don't actually know what the numbers on their sheet mean. Can't read a spell block. I can't think of any other game where anyone would tolerate playing with someone for months who has never actually read the rules. I've tried to enforce it, and yet no one wants to. So we tolerate the pseudo-understanding of the rules. Instead of sitting down and really understanding it all from day 1, we get constant slowdowns each session from rules confusion. I'm just frustrated. Rant over.Tl:dr Old man shakes fist at illiterate zoomersNo One Reads The Rules Anymore
Dear NORTRA:
So f'ing what?
I've had people with zero experience sit down at my table many times over the last four decades. We make characters and we get them up to speed and then we play the game. Those who enjoy the game will return and play again (when invited, of course); those who love the game will go out and buy the book(s) and read the rules, so that they're informed.
We are talking about players here, right? I often joke (well half-joke) that players are a lazy lot. And they ARE...in comparison to the Dungeon Master. It is imperative that the DM knows the rules because the DM is the conductor and arbiter of the game. The Dungeon Master does the bulk of the work of the game, certainly all the 'heavy lifting' (creating and running scenarios). It's not that players are stupid or incapable; many are very intelligent and very capable. But they don't have the burden of responsibility that a Dungeon Master has.
That being said, there is a reason that players who -- after trying the game a few times and deciding they love it and want to continue playing it -- go out and buy the books and read the instructions. It is because they want to get better at playing, and having knowledge gives them more power. Power to overcome the consequences of playing a challenging game.
So, NORTRA, let me ask: Is your game challenging? Is it consequential?
Because I'll tell you this: my game is. Players who walk around my world, blissfully unaware that their actions have consequences, usually DIE. Often badly.
That is to say, their characters die, of course...characters being the avatar and vehicle by which the player interacts with the game world. Presumably you play 5E, so you are probably operating under a myriad of misapprehensions about what D&D is and the objectives of play and whatnot, mainly because the publishers (Wizard of the Coast) don't care whether or not people understand the game or even read the rules, so long as they BUY the rules and put money in their coffers (*ka-ching!*).
As such (that is, because of those misapprehensions), it is quite possible that you DON'T run a challenging, consequential game. Because 5E play is not about challenging players these days, and it's not about enforcing consequences, certainly not for poor play. With its "death saves" and required "player consent"...are you kidding me? The 5E DM is expected to be a dancing monkey for the players, and it sounds like what you're running up against is that you don't like being a dancing monkey for a bunch of lazy slackers who (suffering no consequences for their ignorance) can't be bothered to lift the smallest finger when it comes to making the game run smoothly.
So, "old man," my advice to you is to run a different game, preferably 1st Edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. As the Dungeon Master, YOU get the say over what system you run. It shouldn't matter to players who don't read the instruction manual anyway, and if they bitch and moan just point to the 5E PHB where it says:
The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren’t in charge. You're the 5e DM, and you are in charge of the gameUltimately, the Dungeon Master is the authority on the campaign and its setting, even if the setting is a published world
And the 5E DMG where it says:
the DM interprets the rules and decides when to abide by them and when to change them
Then tell the players: "I am exercising my authority as a 5E Dungeon Master to change the entirety of the system to conform with 1st edition AD&D rules."
Once you've done that, you'll find it far easier to manage the game: the instruction you need to give the players (when they fail to read the rules) are plenty easy to explain, and you'll have far more time for world building and adventure creation...the main draws for a person wanting to be a Dungeon Master. What's more, the AD&D rules can be downright punishing to players who fail to learn or give effort; you will soon cull your table of those who wish only to be "tourists" of the D&D game, and instead you'll find yourself with quality people striving to refine their skills and improve the campaign as a whole.
Sincerely,
JB
Definitely with you on this one. There was a time, back in the dim mists, when some DMs would get tetchy if their players ever looked in the rulebook beyond the Players Handbook. I don't think that's necessarily the best way to play, but it's certainly a way to play. This newfangled idea that players should know the rules (outside of games where rules knowledge is, in fact, important to game play—one of the reasons I've moved away from GURPS a bit is the necessity for players to know how the game works, at least at the complexity level that I like) isn't the default setting by any means.
ReplyDeleteI've never had an issue running D&D for players who didn't know the rules...it's no different from introducing any game to a new player and shepherding them through the learning process.
DeleteThe older / more experienced I get, the more impressed I am with Gygax's Players Handbook...it really does have all the player facing info that any player would ever need and/or want. Why would I want to overwhelm them with all the minutia and nuance packed into the DMG; most of the stuff in THAT tome only comes out 'in play' anyway!
I have always had certain players who just don't bother to learn the rules, even after literally years of playing. This was much less of a problem when we were playing B/X than it is now when playing 5e (especially remotely). B/X characters are simple, but almost all 5e characters are simply littered with various powers that are situationally useful or provide small always-on bonuses (if remembered), etc. I have players who have literally never remembered to use some of the abilities they gained multiple levels ago.
ReplyDeleteOlder forms of D&D are very front-loaded (with a few exceptions among AD&D classes like paladins and monks), which means you learn how your character works once and then practice it across that PC's life. Leveling up largely just makes you better at what you do. 5e OTOH gives you new things to keep track of every level.
Honestly, I can't wait til we wrap up our 5e campaign and I can just fully focus on DCC RPG from there on.
Huh. Why do you want to "wrap your campaign" and start over? Won't that be a lot of time and effort down the tubes?
Delete[I ask this question fully understanding that the standard 5E mode of operation is to run finite campaigns; what's the appeal?]
Here's my RANT ;)
ReplyDeleteSo this idea that players need to actually read the rules to know how to play is just totally anathema to long term invested play in my experience. The game rules are there and it can be beneficial to the players to know them, but that is optional and really only taken advantage by those players who become "obsessed" with the game and usually end up being DMs themselves. The reason I say this is because if your players can't play the game by describing what they want their characters to do diegetically in the context of the situation in the campaign world, then you are running the game wrong. Yes, I do think there is such a thing as BAD WRONG FUN. And this sort of thing is one of the few cases where I draw the line. And this does apply to all kinds of rpg not just dnd, I've played and run the gamut including 3e and 5e and many other systems. This is a situation where the "system doesn't matter" and the rules are a secondary part of the game. If you as DM/GM/Referee/Storyteller don't have enough mastery of the rules system you are using that you depend on the players to know rules, it can hurt your ability to run a game in exactly way; you won't be able to describe what the consequences of the PCs actions are and end up reconning/redoing things or depending on players for rules. they learn the rules are just guidelines and they can lead you by the nose. You lose the respect of the players and subsequent authority you need to run a game successfully. It is imperative that the DM is the final enforcer of the rules(even if those rules are agreed by group consensus) and npt beholden to the players.
Whenever I introduce a new player to my game I tell them there is no need for them to know the rules and that I'm a big proponent of learning through play. I don't keep the rules a secret, and encourage players to read/learn them. I generally explain rules as they come up in play(character generation can be a big part of this). However I don't actually expect them to know the rules, it's just a bonus for those hardcore players. Whether or not a player reads and knows my rules(some never really learn even from extended periods of play), my ability to run the game is unaffected because I encourage "verisimilitude" (wish there was a better word) and diegetic description of pc actions and consequences. If a player describes a PC action using game jargon I tend to ask questions to clarify their action until I get a diegetic description out of them . "I search the area" becomes looking at the table or up the chimney, etc. even basic attacks become sword swings etc. I will only tell my players to roll the dice until I get an in character in world description of their actions. If Players have to use game jargon trigger words for their PCs actions and you accept that style of play, You are running a bad game. The rules are there to facilitate play not to be the play itself. The rules must be followed(as explained so well by Alexis many times), but the players are there to play the ADVENTURE and not a meta game of the rules system.
I know kinda long winded and aggressive, but so many new DMs really do need mentoring and the current culture has kinda moved past that old tradition of dms passing their knowledge on and many never learn basic principles
If my perusals of current reddit texts are a valid sample, the "current culture" of the D&D community is very, very broken. Period, end of story. It is shattered in tiny, itty-bitty pieces.
DeleteI don't think you're saying anything that's uber-different from I'm saying, Lance. The DM should know the rules and how the systems operate; in fact, it is IMPERATIVE that they do. Whether or not the players know the rules is (largely) unimportant.
For 1E players, the MAXIMUM amount of info they need is that found in the PHB...it's really rather genius of Gygax. All the later editions that continued to put more and more information in their PHBs (and thus put more and more BURDEN on the players' plates) have contributed strongly to this specific malaise.
But...whatever. D&D is pretty messed up at this moment in time.