Thursday, December 3, 2020

Battling For Hearts & Minds

This will be (has to be!) a quick post because time is short this morning. 

A while back, my son (who has been attending classes remotely since September) mentioned something about playing Dungeons & Dragons to his class during one of their daily Zoom meetings, and was surprised to find out his teacher also plays D&D (I was not surprised as I recall her telling the class the first week of school that her favorite literary genre was "fantasy" and that her favorite books were those ones by J.K. Rowling). 

Anyway, when classes again started up this week (post-Thanksgiving break), it was Diego's turn to "share" (what my school would have called "Show And Tell" back in the day), and so he decided to show his class the D&D game he'd spent his vacation playing. He walked them through a brief overview of how the game is played, showed them books, explained differences between B/X and AD&D, and talked about role-playing games in general. Most of his 4th grade class, of course, drew solid blanks on all this...they spend the vast majority of their time playing Minecraft and Roblox or other kid-friendly video games that entertain you while melting your brain. 

[I should admit that my wife recently relented (when I wasn't around) and downloaded Minecraft on her phone and an iPad. She has come to regret this, as now the kids are gluing their eyeballs to the screens whenever they are allowed (and sometimes even when they're not). Fortunately, me upping the D&D play around the house has, especially for the boy, helped curb the addiction (Sofia's desire to "minecraft" is much less anyway). But, man, those things are insidious!]

But that doesn't mean they didn't perk up and become interested in this "role-playing thing." One kid said she had tried RPGs but hadn't liked them, but "this D&D game" made her want to give it another shot (don't know what she played before). Another girl was inspired to write her own RPG (after part of Diego's presentation included his own "RPG" he wrote - a mecha game that uses LEGO). Several kids expressed hope that they could play D&D with Diego once they were all able to get back to in-person classes.

Their teacher was (as one might guess) pretty enthusiastic and aided Diego in explaining some of the differences between tabletop RPGs and other board games...a fairly tough slog (I listened from the other room without participating); neither teacher nor student really had the vocabulary to properly express the ideas, but I think the other kids got "the gist." After that, I had to go pick up my daughter (who gets to spend a half day in actual school). 

Later, the boy told me his teacher said she'd spent her Thanksgiving playing D&D, too. He asked her which edition she played: fifth edition. He also told me she'd "outed herself," accidentally disclosing her age: 29. A little quick math in Ye Old Noggin allowed me a few speculations:

  • She would have been born in 1991; this is after the advent of 2nd edition AD&D (though, of course, babies don't usually play D&D).
  • She would have been about 9 years old (my son's age) when 3rd edition was released.
  • She would have been about 17 (high school senior) when 4th edition was released.
  • She would have been about 23ish (grad school?) when 5th edition was released.

[Washington State requires an M.I.T. to teach elementary school but there are several good programs...including my alma mater...where you can get it done in one year]

So while I suppose it's possible his teacher is familiar with the editions of D&D that I'm raising my children on, I think it's more likely her inclinations, assumptions, and concepts with regard to D&D play are based on latter day versions of the game; things like: story-driven plot arcs, assumption of inherent morality, combat-based (and/or fiat based) reward systems, low mortality/consequence challenge, and an emphasis on character build over (in-play) player ingenuity and cooperation. 

In other words, a style of Dungeons & Dragons that I'm not a big fan of.

So what? Why does it matter? Diego, unfortunately, has already inherited much of my bias (I'm such a terrible parent) and exhibits only disdain for modern innovations ("Death saves?! Are you kidding me?") so I'm not really worried about him being "led astray."

'Handle with care?' It's
not like the thing will
burn your hand...
[I say that with tongue-in-cheek: I've instructed him not to disparage other folks' preferred games, to not knock things till you've tried them, and to look critically at both the positive and negative aspects of systems...that there are reasons game design has evolved the way it has. If he were to begin playing 5E or Pathfinder or something, I would assume he is making an informed choice in doing so, not simply going with the herd. We ironed out the whole concept of "fads" years back with fidget spinners (most of his classmates had them; he did not)...he has as good a handle as one could hope from a nine year old when it comes to decision making based on expected consequences]

BUT...*sigh*. Diego does get lonely sometimes. Not that he doesn't have friends...he is very social and gregarious and is liked and respected by his classmates and teammates. But he doesn't have peers who are really on the same page. He has moments where he complains mightily about not having kids his age that relate to him with regard to his likes and interests...despite still being good friends. 

And here he has a chance to get them into his world! Share his blossoming enthusiasm for this strange hobby! And even get encouragement and a stamp of approval from an authority figure (the teacher) that could lead to peers actually entering his world (for a change) instead of only participating in their world...

I would hate for clashing biases to make the experience a miserable one for my kid.

I know, I know: such a stupid thing to worry about these days, what with everything else going on in the world. Parents have stupid things they worry about when it comes to their kids. I'm fairly certain my kids will end up as functional, if flawed, adults (the vast majority of us do), regardless of the journey life throws at them. Still, it is, I think, natural that parents would like that journey to be as happy as possible

Anyway. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

[aaaand...turns out my time was TOO short as I'm posting this on Thursday instead of Wednesday. Sorry about that]

31 comments:

  1. I gave in and have been playing quite a bit of 5E since midsummer. Though there are definitely some things I don't care for so much, I've found that it isn't nearly as "bad" as many oldschoolers make it out to be. I've had a ton of fun as both a player and a DM.

    One of my regular B/X games continues on, but the other one has shifted to the back burner and the players are trying out 5E.

    One thing I will say is that my oldschool sensibilities play a huge role in how I play or run a game, so my 5E playstyle is probably not the default even though I have been running my games 100% BTB. Even on first look, I found 5E far more attractive to me than my attempt to read and understand 4E.

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    1. I told my kid about 5E's unlimited attack cantrips for wizards and he said "What?! That's too easy! Where's the challenge?" Bless his heart...I'm raising a little grognard.
      ; )

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    2. The unlimited attack cantrips is basically the "magic blast" debate from 2009. People complained that a magic blast ability didn't "feel very magic" and then suggested that magic-users should throw daggers every round or maybe use a sling or crossbow if the DM would allow. Which is less "magic" than a magic blast ability. Personally, my B/X game is better with either more weapons or a magic blast for magic-users, and I've been doing one or the other for about 15 years now and haven't noticed a decrease in challenge.

      In my limited 5E experience, I think the biggest "problem" with the game is the rapid increase in power. Characters really ramp up quickly, and when combined with the assumption of fast leveling in 5E, it doesn't take long to reach super-heroic territory. I would probably slow the advance by reducing the rate at which characters level.

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    3. I will definitely say that I like the fact that your kids got into the game with older editions and an oldschool playstyle. I think that gives them a great perspective that many don't seem to have. I did the same with my own kids after looking at 4E (just published when I was introducing them) and am glad we did it that way.

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  2. I'll be running a 5e campaign starting this Saturday. It's not my first time: I played in a single session last year and ran a session on a big server, which was a very poor introduction. After six months of a S&W campaign, I just felt an itch for some variety. What surprised me was how fast an online campaign came together. I paired up with a friend who had a small server, and I had a party in less than a couple days. I haven't even started playing, and already the easier time recruiting a goodly sized party improves my opinion of the game by proxy.
    On the other hand, prepping a WOTC campaign is a pain. I'm reworking a lot of it, and I have to make careful notes about a lot of it. Zero chance of running from the page. I do genuinely like a lot of the adventure content, but tweaking it is a pain, and if I want to render it runnable I have to do it myself.

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  3. "Still, it is, I think, natural that parents would like that journey to be as happy as possible." If that's a Tao reference I think I'm spending too much time reading D&D blogs.

    Anyway, nice post. I love to hear about other people teaching D&D to their younglings. I'm teaching B/X my sister (she's just 12), we are just four sessions on but it has been an amazing experience to see how smart and creative she can be.

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    1. You should see my six year old DM a game. She's coo-coo-crazy!
      ; )

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  4. Interesting points and I empathise with your worries about minecraft and roblox. I banned the latter as guff and played the former for a bit myself. What I find is that minecraft and another highly popular game Terraria both have many concepts and features which we as old timers would recognise from D&D. I enjoy explaining to my kids who Cthulu is (Terraria) or why green slime is to be avoided.

    minecraft has huge potential and my 9yo son is building in minecraft the offshore platforms that I'm supervising the build of in real life using screen grabs from the 3D model the fabricator shares with me.

    It's great that his teacher plays, so perhaps she needs to be persuaded to run a class wide RPG adventure - something like a choose your own adventure book with an added d6.

    If you are thinking of an RPG system your son or daughter could run with their friends then have a look at Mausritter by losing games. There's a free PDF, it's beautifully set out and there's lots of fun wee ideas in there.

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    1. My boy prefers Labyrinth Lord for his own games (when acting as DM).

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    2. I was just about to comment myself; I know nothing about Roblox, but I think JB is being too harsh on Minecraft. It's very much a "make your own fun" game, like Legos except you buy it once and then have an unlimited number and variety of bricks. Certainly there's something to be said for fostering a variety of interests and not dumping all your time into a single game, but in and of itself I'd rate it pretty far the opposite of "brain-melting."

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    3. I suppose one’s opinion comes down to how you view our move towards a “post-literate” society. I am a grumpy old man in this regard.

      My nine year old *has* created some amazing castles, though.

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  5. Aww this is such a sweet post lol. I was like Diego when I was a kid and I'm familiar with that feeling of not being able to share your interests with your friends. I don't think worrying about that is stupid at all.

    The problem is when you get 5e players that expect all D&D to be exactly like Critical Role or guys who only want to play Pathfinder. But It sounds like most of the other kids don't really have much biases or expectations about D&D yet, so things will probably go fine.

    Also, you shouldn't be so harsh on minecraft lol. I totally get where you're coming from, but IMO, the experience of playing it is (at least in certain modes) has more in common with playing old school d&d than most other video games. It's fundamentally a game about exploration where characters have full agency to do whatever they like. It's just that the focus is on gathering materials to craft/build stuff and you can't really talk to NPCs much.

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    1. Minecraft is interesting. I'm not terribly into crafting type games (I don't have the patience), but I understand the draw.

      The issue, I suppose, is more one of "screen use" in general. I have some strong opinions regarding the way our technology shapes and (in my opinion) hinders our society, especially in the way it alienates us from one another. I say this as a person who doesn't particularly crave social interaction with others (shocking, I'm sure). For young, developing humans especially, I think it's important to NOT let them get too deeply into the dopamine cycle and easy gratification of "accomplishment"...it's bad enough for adults who (hopefully) already have a foundation of experience not based on a virtual world.

      I'm sure that probably marks me as the 21st century equivalent of a Luddite. But for all the fears I have for my children, fear that they are missing some vital piece of knowledge (due to my limiting their video game time) is NOT a worry I carry. Quite the opposite.

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  6. This is exactly why I made Into the Unknown as a bridge between 5e and b/x, so that modern gamers have a mote accessible gateway to Old school play.

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  7. I've found myself thinking about 5E a fair bit, maybe too much, in the last year or two, and while I'm not running it anymore I am running an OD&D game for a gang of three 5E players in their late 20's to mid-30's along with a couple of the veterans from my 5E game.

    It's been interesting to watch them adjust, and while they came because one of my players excited them with talk about our older game and its playstyle, it still took a while to adjust. It wasn't the rules, there's enough similarities -- but the entire set of expectations and ethos around play and the purpose of the game.

    As odd as it sounds I think 5E, despite a fair bit of kludge, is a system one can work with, but even if it was identical to OD&D the play style that the current culture around it seems radically different. Not bad, just different.

    Like my new players wanted to have backstories for their greenhorn tomb robbers. They seem to have thought a fair bit about them. It wasn't anything special: An earnest farmboy fighter, a mobster thief, and a viking raider (also fighter), but my players seem to have thought it would matter even in the first few sessions - like hooks and NPC interactions would bend and form around these nuggets of individual identity. It made it harder when all three got munched by bearowl. The replacement PCs seem to have reconciled with the fundamental cruelty and indifference of the setting and they did get their revenge on the bearowl.

    Point being that the narrative expectations in the culture around 5E are powerful, even if the mechanics aren't that different -- and its strange, cause there aren't real Narrative/story mechanics in 5E. Maybe there should be?

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    1. Hmm...it's been a while since I read the 5E books, but I thought there were definite "Narrative/story mechanics" in the rules. Isn't that the purpose of the "inspiration" system? And advantage/disadvantage can easily lend itself to narrativist inclinations for DMs willing to delegate more authority to players in-play.

      My stance on backgrounds at the moment has softened a skosh. I hope to address this in a future post.

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    2. Inspiration in theory is supposed to be a carrot for acting "in character" even when doing so would be to your tactical disadvantage. In practice, nothing else in the system supports it and hardly anyone makes significant use of it, usually because everyone forgets it even exists. Despite not being marked as an optional rule, I've seen many optional rules used more regularly than inspiration - especially feats.

      As for advantage/disadvantage, I've never seen any particular connection between them an narrative play styles, except perhaps in the tangential sense that they're most helpful to players and DMs with subpar math skills.

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    3. Hmm. I can see advantage/disadvantage used for all sorts of narrative-driven maneuvers (or to offset the same in opponents). Certainly, if I was playing 5E I would make as much use of the mechanic as possible to gain an edge. Same with inspiration.

      But I’m all about gaming systems.
      ; )

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    4. That's the thing, unless a game feature (spell, feat, two characters working together on an ability check rather than rolling separately, a negative condition such as knockdown, or whatever) explicitly gives advantage/disadvantage, it's entirely up to the DM. Making as much use of the former as possible is just good tactical play, but unless the DM is a total pushover then there's no real "gaming the system" on the latter - and honestly, if the DM is a total pushover then cajoling advantage or disadvantage on a few rolls is probably one of the least game-breaking edges you could manage to extract.

      Same for inspiration, only the DM has the power to award it, and if the DM forgets or is stingy then you don't get any. There's no checklist of "doing X, Y, and Z earns you inspiration." You're also explicitly not allowed to stockpile inspiration, it's a binary you have it or you don't.

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    5. Sure...but you can request it right? “If I do X, will I gain inspiration/advantage? No? How about if I do Y?” Even if the DM forgets, you can remind him/her, yeah?

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  8. As a kid i used to be like Diego. Many friends to play futebol (soccer), but alone with my own interests.
    I'm with you about the "screen use". Unite, parents of the whole world. My kids has permission to play with gadgets 1hour/day and no one minute beyond.
    Their interest in books, minis and ttgames only increase since then. My nephew, who is practically livin with us, built his first dungeon.

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  9. Your son's teacher is my age. :)

    My earliest memories of D&D are watching my dad play Baldur's Gate and later playing it myself. Never really played until college when one kinda boring session (must've been 3rd or 4th edition) turned me off of it for a while. I got the 5th edition starter set on sale while in grad school, then it sat on the shelves til just a few years ago when the podcast The Adventure Zone (of all things) inspired me to start a group.

    Then I discovered OSR stuff, to be honest I don't quite recall how.... but the rest is history. Now running B/X and can't wait to do so for my daughter when she's no longer a baby.

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    1. Hey, Matt: that’s actually pretty good insight/info, and I appreciate you sharing.

      There is definitely a WIDE spectrum of D&D play available, and we all tend to be colored by our...well, by all the experiences, good and bad, that make up our various colored glasses. That being said, my personal opinion is that deeper, long term play (what I would pretentiously call “meaningful” play) can only be found through older edition games of the last century...and much of that is by DESIGN. In some case this is due to infrained obsolescence; in others (notably 3E+Epic) it’s due to the superficiality caused by the embedded skill system.

      But...and this is something to keep in mind when reading the rants of old dudes like Yours Truly...you may not need, care, or want my pretentious style of play. This stuff got hardwired into me in my formative years and as a latecomer to the hobby (that is, having come to the hobby later in life) you probably have other “hardwired” weirdness of your own completely unrelated to D&D. You don’t need to go down our particular rabbit hole!

      But if you decide to do so, be warned the hole is very, VERY deep...
      ; )

      As for your kids: kids love playing with their parents; that part ain’t hard. The hard part is the waiting till their old enough to actually comprehend this D&D stuff. Start cultivating your patience now!

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    2. [that should say “ingrained obsolescence” and is in reference to 21st century editions of D&D]

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  10. My 9 year old is more a fortnite player but we find we don't have to limit his time, he just doesn't like to play it for very long. Although during the pandemic it is quite good that he can speak to and interact with his friends on the game, normal social contract being impossible during the lockdown. But he is happy to turn away from the screen to read, play with his Lego figures or animals. Everything gets dropped though when dad gets the AD&D stuff out for the game, so I think he's found his balance on his own and I love the fact it's turned out this way.

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    1. Yeah, that's my son also. However, we've had "Snowmageddon" the last couple days in Seattle so we've been mostly outside building forts and having snowball fights.

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    2. *ahem* To clarify: my kids don't play Fortnite, but the same applies to screens/computer games in general.

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