tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post6585653800875760076..comments2024-03-29T06:49:41.107-07:00Comments on B/X BLACKRAZOR: D&D NowJBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-91957317753651564022015-12-13T19:24:01.090-08:002015-12-13T19:24:01.090-08:00@ JD:
And Why O Why can't I be as succinct in...@ JD:<br /><br />And Why O Why can't I be as succinct in my blog posts as you are with this comment. You have pretty much summed up everything in my post in three sentences.<br /><br />Thanks for making me feel like a hack...again.<br />; )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-53252914371205552672015-12-13T19:21:15.166-08:002015-12-13T19:21:15.166-08:00@ Jack:
"For the record," I'm not s...@ Jack:<br /><br />"For the record," I'm not sure I'd give D20 (the moniker I ascribe to both 3.0 and 3.5) quite the accolades you give, but it IS masterful in many ways, and an excellent, innovative derivation. A "valiant effort," I guess I'd call it, with a lot of good writing and nice ideas/organization. A lot of care, thought, and work went into it...not just as a product, but as a design, and there's some respect due to the team that put it together.<br /><br />That being said, I have a lot of issues with it, mainly as to how it plays, what it produces (in its participants), and its myriad limitations. Stylistically, I have some issues with it, too (and here I mean the TYPE of game it produces, not the art aesthetic or anything).<br /><br />But that's just my opinion.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-52403008170344977142015-12-13T09:48:18.709-08:002015-12-13T09:48:18.709-08:005e is written to a subset of existing RPG players/...5e is written to a subset of existing RPG players/customers from what I can tell. It isn't as awful as 4e was but it doesn't have any draw over earlier editions, inexpensive offerings or free offerings out there. <br /><br />Why can't they write a coherent and brief basic set? JDJarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07691101939920824546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-56746919748947307002015-12-13T03:32:11.859-08:002015-12-13T03:32:11.859-08:00I think I might not have been clear that I conside...I think I might not have been clear that I consider OSR to be one of those systems in which rules don't get in the way. :) <br /><br />And for the record, 3.5 is a masterpiece of game design. If you want a heavy-tactical, heavy-opt system that still feels like you're playing a fantasy game you can't do better than 3.5. It simulates the "real world" mechanically pretty accurately and is highly modular. It isn't perfect but it's actually pretty hard to really, genuinely improve on -- and PF isn't an improvement, just a sidegrade. It's flat-out superior to 4E due to the latter's reliance on dissociated mechanics. And 5E, to me, just looks like a 3E retread, doomed to suffer the rules bloat and power creep of its predecessor.<br /><br />My preference is in games that don't require multi-page character sheets or hundreds of pages of rules or databases to track spells and feats or SRDs. I'm comfortable with a higher level of abstraction for the sake of being able to "do stuff" as I think of it rather than being limited to the skills on the character sheet. It's been my experience that most players trend in that direction over time, and that's the point I was making. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16094014880813779766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-43829754750055844662015-12-12T13:13:06.372-08:002015-12-12T13:13:06.372-08:00@ Dluke:
That's cool that she's running, ...@ Dluke:<br /><br />That's cool that she's running, and it does sound like a neat campaign. But if you're going to make your own rules it seems a bit of a waste (to me) to invest a couple hundred bucks in a thousand pages of book.<br /><br />I was able to run some fun campaigns at age 9, too, using only the Moldvay and (later) Expert rules. But my game was "by the book."<br /><br />Whatever gets 'em playing I suppose.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-16858759254676494452015-12-12T09:10:52.978-08:002015-12-12T09:10:52.978-08:00That looks like great fun! I'd play it.That looks like great fun! I'd play it.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-38869725263465995092015-12-12T08:59:03.347-08:002015-12-12T08:59:03.347-08:00She does create her own encounters that (seem)fine...She does create her own encounters that (seem)fine. She doesn't award exp based on monsters slain but on adventures. I have no clue if those are actually figured out right or just at whatever rate she feels like letting us advance at.<br /><br />It's pretty fun seeing a nine year olds take on adventure creation. Her games tend to be a mix of Lord of the Rings, harry potter and teen titans with a UNHEALTHY dose of young inexperienced heroes being totally right and anyone with experience and age being unreasonable and wrong.<br /><br />Go figure eh? IAMWARDUKEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11087397876578375265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-43161419852797747912015-12-12T05:20:44.458-08:002015-12-12T05:20:44.458-08:00@ Jack:
Hmm...your experience has been different ...@ Jack:<br /><br />Hmm...your experience has been different from mine. I've known many fewer people who jumped ship for a story-oriented game, and I've known many folks (like myself) who DID jump ship only to return to these Old School games as their regular, if not permanent, choice. Clearly, we run in different circles.<br /><br />However, I am totally on the same page with you with regard to NEVER going back to 3E, 3.5, Pathfinder, or other D20-based game. That system blows chunks.<br /><br />IMO.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-33790730640555761782015-12-12T05:15:35.392-08:002015-12-12T05:15:35.392-08:00Yeah? Your niece was able to read the DMG and figu...Yeah? Your niece was able to read the DMG and figure out how to construct challenges of the proper XP totals for the party? For that alone I'd salute her, let alone being able to take the game and teach it to her fellow nine-year olds.<br /><br />I haven't read S&W Complete, so I can't speak to her assessment of that product.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-10089577218983512992015-12-12T05:12:11.075-08:002015-12-12T05:12:11.075-08:00@ IG:
*sigh*
Okay, it has a clean, flexible engi...@ IG:<br /><br />*sigh*<br /><br />Okay, it has a clean, flexible engine. But what's being sold is the whole package. My grump is with the package as a whole...the thing is DUMB (or, rather, "lame").<br /><br />And sure folks like you and me can edit, modify, and tweak the thing...we can do that with a lot of dumb, cluttered systems (except maybe Palladium). So the F what? I'd like to think folks deserve better of something called "D&D," and the people making it. But maybe they don't.<br />JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-41371132524560735762015-12-12T03:40:04.709-08:002015-12-12T03:40:04.709-08:00Know what I've noticed?
Virtually everyone I&...Know what I've noticed?<br /><br />Virtually everyone I've ever known who has cut their teeth on D&D eventually leaves it behind for a system in which the rules don't get in the way of telling a story. Including me.<br /><br />I do love tinkering with 3.5 and other rules systems, but ever since I fell in love with FATE I don't think I could go back to playing 3.5/Pathfinder. And I've no interest in 5E, as to be frank I've already memorized one crunchy system and I can't see a good reason to do it again. (Same applies to PF.)<br /><br />I prefer chewy bacon and Dungeon World.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16094014880813779766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-47889902654024967932015-12-11T20:04:06.911-08:002015-12-11T20:04:06.911-08:00My nine year old Niece received the 5E core books ...My nine year old Niece received the 5E core books and is now running a game for her friends and the rest of us with it. She had ZERO issues learning the game and had never played a rpg before.<br /><br />On the other hand she read my Swords and Wizardry Complete book and said it was stupid.<br /><br />Kids!<br /><br />I think 5E is .......ok? I guess? It isn't bad, it's just not to my tastes.<br /><br />IAMWARDUKEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11087397876578375265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-80827281109708497842015-12-11T13:08:43.969-08:002015-12-11T13:08:43.969-08:00Ugh. I haven't even bothered to read the secti...Ugh. I haven't even bothered to read the section on Dragonborn, to be perfectly honest. I knew I wasn't going to use them.<br /><br />I think the point I was getting at originally was, it doesn't really matter about a lot of the fluff or implied setting material, because people like you and me are just going to roll our own thing anyway. The core rules themselves (what we call "the engine" in video game dev) are what's important, and those are actually pretty clean and pretty flexible. At least from what I've experienced.The Iron Goathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15839364742884404019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-42153309108374028482015-12-11T11:41:09.242-08:002015-12-11T11:41:09.242-08:00@ IG:
Ha! You know, I haven't even bothered t...@ IG:<br /><br />Ha! You know, I haven't even bothered to read the specific class features, so I completely missed this. A "beast master" ranger...huh. That's interesting. If such a character was, say, a dragonborn, would you think he'd have a more difficult time enticing creatures to his retinue? I mean, he'd smell like dragon, right?<br /><br />(again, there's a lot of stupid in this game. I suppose I'm just too old to enjoy its "whimsy")JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-70417143230738989492015-12-11T11:34:36.228-08:002015-12-11T11:34:36.228-08:00@ Ian:
I would presume that one idea would be for...@ Ian:<br /><br />I would presume that one idea would be for everyone to have a consistent rule set from which to run. But since everyone seems inclined to modify the rules, well...JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-79690543549629736902015-12-11T09:52:30.435-08:002015-12-11T09:52:30.435-08:00I don't know. No one has played one, so I have...I don't know. No one has played one, so I haven't seen it in action. I can tell you that the Beast Master Ranger is pretty dumb, though. One of the first rules I chose to ignore was the one that you have to use up your own action to make your animal companion attack.The Iron Goathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15839364742884404019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-11414433615648897632015-12-11T09:08:36.348-08:002015-12-11T09:08:36.348-08:00@ Gus L: I've read through the PHB, and I agre...@ Gus L: I've read through the PHB, and I agree that there are some useful elements scattered through it (elements that are offered much cheaper or for free elsewhere) - and I agree with JB that it wouldn't be very easy for a beginner to pick up and play. But the cost is bizarre - this stuff is basically free these days, and it is interesting that so many people are willing to drop $150 just so they are on the same page as the other players of the dominant product. It reminds me of Linux (OSR, blogs) and Microsoft (D&D 5E).Gleblixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546938383587063556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-73313129655423366962015-12-11T05:50:25.928-08:002015-12-11T05:50:25.928-08:00@ Shlomo:
Just went back and read the introductio...@ Shlomo:<br /><br />Just went back and read the introduction in the PHB. Nothing here refers the new reader to a beginner set or starter box; no such product is mentioned. Nor is there any mention of the game building on more basic sets; instead you find the typical "this is what role-playing is" text aimed at the new player, not the old hand.<br /><br />At least TSR had the kindness to label one set as "Advanced" (both 1E and 2E) cluing folks in that there were easier, more accessible sets being published simultaneously.<br /><br />[I should also note that I didn't see any "starter sets" at the stores where I saw 5E. It's possible that they were on different shelfs/areas, but they weren't with the 5E books. This includes a game shop, a B&N, and a kiosk in the mall selling a variety of games, including board and card sets).<br /><br />So, no, I don't think I'm being unfair...the game is labeled as "Dungeons & Dragons," not 'expert' or 'advanced' or 'graduate level' and sure seems to have a lot of newbie text (to the point of being terribly weak-sauce in the DMG for veteran DMs...see Heron's comments). However, I'll see if I can dig up a copy of the starter set for reading and review.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-8572444868721435782015-12-11T05:08:38.935-08:002015-12-11T05:08:38.935-08:00Spot on. The nicest thing about the older editions...Spot on. The nicest thing about the older editions is that no one has come to my house and said, "I'm sorry, those editions are no longer supported, we'll have to take them back."<br /><br />Sort of like Windows 10. ;)Vanadornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04342660129465098326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-49590269607595173512015-12-11T00:04:54.529-08:002015-12-11T00:04:54.529-08:00to add something to the topic at hand, i'm not...to add something to the topic at hand, i'm not sure you're being completely fair to 5th edition (the 3 main books) if you judge it by accessibility for newbies. isn't that what the beginner boxes (starter boxes?) are for? don't they cover the basics in far fewer pages? i'm sure they do.<br /><br />haven't read them, so i can't judge if they are doing a better job, but maybe your friend simply bought the wrong product?<br /><br />also, when me and my friends started out, a lot of the game was "over our heads" as well. that's not necessarily bad. ;)shlominushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10230735173349001611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-47091582980277260532015-12-10T21:58:03.403-08:002015-12-10T21:58:03.403-08:00@ Bob:
Ah, you caught me. Sometimes those zingers...@ Bob:<br /><br />Ah, you caught me. Sometimes those zingers work, and sometimes I just look like the hack I am.<br />; )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-74916530724334533812015-12-10T21:56:50.075-08:002015-12-10T21:56:50.075-08:00@ lil mute:
I'm sure there's plenty of fo...@ lil mute:<br /><br />I'm sure there's plenty of folks playing and enjoying 5E. Never said there weren't. <br /><br />And I HAVE played some 5E...at least during the "testing phase." Yes, with its twice-kill-needed orcs (where O where did THAT stupid idea come from? The Uruk-Hai scene in Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring?). It felt dull and lifeless and boring.<br /><br />My friend's experience had nothing to do with gameplay...it had to do with accessibility issues that led to zero gameplay. You seem to have missed the point of my post. Well, several points actually.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-25660982115035843622015-12-10T21:49:06.828-08:002015-12-10T21:49:06.828-08:00"Complexity" isn't really one of my ..."Complexity" isn't really one of my complaints. I've written before that I think the advantage-disadvantage mechanic is pretty nifty, and I'd assume it works well to streamline play, as do some other 5E design choices.<br /><br />I hate to say it, but I think the think loses more "style points" for me than anything else. But that includes a lot of things besides aesthetic appeal. Do YOU like this version of the Druid?JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-11645396816329430642015-12-10T21:38:20.119-08:002015-12-10T21:38:20.119-08:00Your B&N has a lot more history on its shelf t...Your B&N has a lot more history on its shelf than mine (maybe its customers aren't frequenting the RPG section enough to turn over the shelf space? We're such nerds in Seattle)!JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-5847591935607424602015-12-10T21:35:37.051-08:002015-12-10T21:35:37.051-08:00@ Matt:
You may be right (about Brandon selling h...@ Matt:<br /><br />You may be right (about Brandon selling his daughter short)...folks frequently underestimate their kids. But just judging by my own experience, I'd be surprised if any kid under 10 could learn 5E without some serious mentoring. <br /><br />Oh...and I hear you on the organizational layout thing. That was just a nit I didn't want to pick.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.com