tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post4805220658248968406..comments2024-03-28T00:41:13.514-07:00Comments on B/X BLACKRAZOR: Elven BeefJBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-14766350090848872092020-12-22T14:23:45.572-08:002020-12-22T14:23:45.572-08:00@ Monk:
Does your last question (re elven dominan...@ Monk:<br /><br />Does your last question (re elven dominance) refer to taking the level caps off?<br /><br />I think that...with regard to AD&D (which is what I'm playing at the moment) there are quite a number of special abilities available to the elf, and no real downside (assuming the removal of level caps) with the possible exception of resurrection limitations. While I don't think it would lead to ABSOLUTE "elven dominance" (there are still classes restricted to humans) I don't relish the idea of a campaign where the only PC humans are paladins and monks, etc. However, you could still make life hard on the elf characters by some heavy-handed social engineering...but again the main curbing of demihuman enthusiasm (and certainly the EASIEST, in my opinion) is retaining level caps.<br /><br />As I'm lazy, I usually default to the easiest solution.<br />; )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-70684267307136084652020-12-22T11:24:45.048-08:002020-12-22T11:24:45.048-08:00Yeah, we never had halflings either. In fact we al...Yeah, we never had halflings either. In fact we almost never had anything other than human. When ever I asked about it the general response was, "I'm human so my character is human." I suspect that part of it might also be that the vast majority of people I've played with got into table top games through video games like Final Fantasy where elves and dwarves are a rarity. <br /><br />As for the demihuman thing, is there an honest concern for elf dominance or just theorizing? If so, why?Monkapotomushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863829877299943297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-30940621678870546102020-12-22T07:10:29.836-08:002020-12-22T07:10:29.836-08:00I can say that, in my youth, it was always a consi...I can say that, in my youth, it was always a consideration for *me*. I can clearly remember cutting the assassin and druid from consideration as character types because of their level limits. And it *seems* to me that it was a consideration for other players, because we saw no druids, no dwarves, no elves, no monks, etc. in our game, except as the occasional NPC. The only halflings that appeared were thieves or thief-acrobats.<br /><br />[when the UA arrived, we did see a couple-three Drow...briefly. One was used on a few side adventures, and one was killed by her own party for being incredibly obnoxious and evil. But Drow have pretty high level limits for multi-class characters, in addition to their bonus abilities]<br /><br />There *were* several half-elf PCs...all bards. Level 23 was judged to be fairly "unreachable," especially on top of the bard's earlier careers. <br /><br />And I wouldn't say we had a particular aversion to particular races (well, maybe dwarves). We were very big into elves in the 80s, being super-fans of Wendy Pini's ElfQuest and whatnot.<br /><br />As an adult, it hasn't been an issue for me...because I don't get a chance to play much and am (thus) not terribly concerned about long-term play. But if I *was* involved in a game that I expected to stick with for a while, and had evidence of high level characters in the campaign, then I would DEFINITELY take level limits into account. And PROBABLY I would play either a human fighter, human magic-user or human cleric, all of which have excellent role-playing potential (though I daresay the human cleric is pretty darn over-powered and too *easy* of a choice for me to give it serious consideration).JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-39518914334000492732020-12-21T08:51:42.250-08:002020-12-21T08:51:42.250-08:00Were level limits really a consideration for makin...Were level limits really a consideration for making characters? Like it was actually part of the thought process? I kind of find that amazing. I don't think I ever had a player think or worry about them when making characters for any of our campaigns. Pretty much you played an elf if you wanted to play an elf or a dwarf if you wanted to play a dwarf.Monkapotomushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863829877299943297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-28506737297706716692020-12-19T11:54:13.638-08:002020-12-19T11:54:13.638-08:00@ Dick & 7B:
Thanks for the clarification; I ...@ Dick & 7B:<br /><br />Thanks for the clarification; I should have been able to figure that out.<br /><br />Huh. Yeah, I never saw many dual-classed characters in actual play, even "back in the day," partly (or probably) because players felt very locked in to their party "role" (the healer guy, the magic guy, etc.). Players who wanted the abilities of two classes were generally too impatient to work through any "awkward phases" and went the multi-class path instead.<br /><br />We did have multiple (1E) bards wander through our campaign, however, and we never treated them like dual class characters.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-43623183217304256182020-12-19T10:32:11.957-08:002020-12-19T10:32:11.957-08:00Yeah it can feel like a long time, but taking 3 le...Yeah it can feel like a long time, but taking 3 levels of fighter is 4,000 ish xp and its only 10,000 more to get 4th level as a magic user. Then you have on average 9 extra hitpoints and can use a longbow. <br /><br />As magic users are already mostly sitting in the back cowering most of the adventure doing so durring the awkward levels isnt much diffrent than what you would be doing anyway, and you can at least take a hit or two. <br /><br />My last 1e campaign the dual classed cleric then magic user was twice as useful as a straight magic user with access to healing.<br /><br />sevenbastardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11961009160456478009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-24208982210286812022020-12-19T09:38:42.450-08:002020-12-19T09:38:42.450-08:00The awkward phase of dual classing (when you dont ...The awkward phase of dual classing (when you dont get XP if you use your other classes abilities) not the awkward human phase.<br /><br />Dual class can result in some very powerful characters that dont have the level lag of multiclass charachters. <br /><br />Once we figured out the power of dual classing we played a lot less demi humans. But then we were power games.sevenbastardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11961009160456478009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-25409847324793812012020-12-19T05:40:37.918-08:002020-12-19T05:40:37.918-08:00"Awkward phase" probably means that stre..."Awkward phase" probably means that stretch where a dual-class human's second class is still below the level of the class they left behind, when they can't access any of the abilities of the first class if they want to earn XP. It's pretty awful, other than having extra HP and more items you perform much worse than the single-class PCs around you and it can take quite a while to get past it.Dick McGeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14521293874696659063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-63177352445450736032020-12-18T18:47:30.074-08:002020-12-18T18:47:30.074-08:00I am enforcing class-race-level limits as they app...I am enforcing class-race-level limits as they appear in the PHB. I am not using UA at this time. I fully expect players to gravitate towards humans as they hit “the wall.”<br />; )<br /><br />Not sure what “awkward phase” you refer to, with regard to humans.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-84038233210011755402020-12-18T17:59:52.889-08:002020-12-18T17:59:52.889-08:00Elves were always superior as a race in early D&am...Elves were always superior as a race in early D&D maddeningly so. <br /><br />Are you planning enforcing the level limit? It is the only way to prevent elf dominance and get people to play humans.<br /><br />Well the smart move if you have the stats is to dual class as a human and get through the awkward phase. sevenbastardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11961009160456478009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-71407750060417966772020-12-18T16:55:07.002-08:002020-12-18T16:55:07.002-08:00It is ALWAYS a good thing to have fresh eyes on a ...It is ALWAYS a good thing to have fresh eyes on a project, even if that project is as old as AD&D. I don't know if anyone I've ever gamed with would have guessed that a single-class elf fighter could be so awesome.<br />subhumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11473278419449181642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-15656045235614361212020-12-18T11:24:27.160-08:002020-12-18T11:24:27.160-08:00Helpful when your partner is a halfling.
; )Helpful when your partner is a halfling.<br />; )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-74189337909143508372020-12-18T11:21:53.317-08:002020-12-18T11:21:53.317-08:00I always noted those sneak rules and wanted to run...I always noted those sneak rules and wanted to run an all-elf group to take advantage of it, but I could never convince anyone to do it for precisely the reasons you mention. It is good to know that <i>someone</i> finally took advantage and proved the concept could work. Awesome!FrDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459281821319914530noreply@blogger.com