tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post2572308451228711596..comments2024-03-28T00:41:13.514-07:00Comments on B/X BLACKRAZOR: Generic Unfocused Role-Playing SystemsJBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-56759570336321739742011-07-08T23:03:10.160-07:002011-07-08T23:03:10.160-07:00GURPS was born when Metagaming went under and Stev...GURPS was born when Metagaming went under and Steve couldn't afford to buy the rights to his own (and much better) The Fantasy Trip. Steve based it on the Champions rule system because he thought that was the best game system around at the time.<br /><br />I remember having a few email exchanges with the SJ crew when GURPS 4E was announced; I said why not make the game more accessible for new players (by that I meant one book and simple)? The response was something along the lines of "GURPS players want complicated, we don't market to non-GURPS players."<br /><br />That's a much diluted version of the exchange but bottom line was: our game plan is to support people that play the way Steve does. In the same way that if you like fast and loose AND deadly fantasy you probably go for B/X. I know I do.<br /><br />Although I love B/X I play LL because I don't want to destroy my priceless B/X books!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-59127852280900339262009-11-13T10:02:35.039-08:002009-11-13T10:02:35.039-08:00@JD: I'm on the same page as you, though as a ...@JD: I'm on the same page as you, though as a guy who owns 50+ RPGs, I'm not sure I qualify as entirely "normal." As far as being boring...well, maybe you're just an old geezer like me!<br />: )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-32132423363935739412009-11-13T08:14:40.950-08:002009-11-13T08:14:40.950-08:00... and I'd rather be playing adventures than ...... and I'd rather be playing adventures than reading rule books and designing characters any day...JD Nealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04316006608698192630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-57684888983516553862009-11-13T08:11:38.682-08:002009-11-13T08:11:38.682-08:00"Game authors simply assume that people buyin..."Game authors simply assume that people buying their games are role-players who have played before..."<br /><br />1 – it completely neglects the idea of growing the hobby, by limiting texts to existing role-players."<br /><br />My comment on this is that most RPG designers have left me out of the hobby. I consider myself an ordinary person not a die hard gamer. I just want some easy gaming now and then.<br /><br />Way back in the 80s we ordinary people could find 128 pages of "rules" that were mostly support reference and play our games and have fun. Not perfect rules, but a complete game.<br /><br />Today you gotta be a heavy duty gamer to want to wade through most books. (Not all of them, just a lot of them).<br /><br />I'm not whining about the "good ole days". I was working on a module recently and I noted how all the details in a game limit and stifle it (they are for the gamer not the ordinary person who wants things easy and simple). <br /><br />I been thinking about that and how I didn't like almost any game from the 80s to present because too many focused on the wrong details. And how the hobby revolves mostly around selling books to gamers and not games for more ordinary people.<br /><br />Wading through GURPS skill lists and I realized it was designed as a kludge to number crunching character designers, not adventure playing gamers. It didn't do anything very well even in trying to be "universal" because it had to try to appease the tweakers.<br /><br />Simple games must scare the crap out of designers. Or else all designers are hot-dice gamers who've worn the seat out of simple and need details. <br /><br />Or I'm just boring.<br /><br />But I do know I don't need 300 to 1,000 pages for an entire game (then gobs of supplements...). Indeed, I'm finding fewer details helps me play faster and with more fun. From the practical viewpoint: I can make things up faster and easier when there are fewer details.JD Nealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04316006608698192630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-81026525272415498692009-11-12T23:42:41.426-08:002009-11-12T23:42:41.426-08:00Would you call Traveller an adventure RPG? I would...Would you call Traveller an adventure RPG? I would...and I wouldn't consider "challenging the players" to be the driving force behind it.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-16191506666420984842009-11-12T23:26:46.517-08:002009-11-12T23:26:46.517-08:00I think it's the driving force behind adventur...I think it's the driving force behind adventure RPGs, a category GURPS certainly falls under.JimLotFPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-80347169090522469462009-11-12T23:18:05.276-08:002009-11-12T23:18:05.276-08:00@ Jim: Oh, Jim! ; )
Actually, I don't believe...@ Jim: Oh, Jim! ; )<br /><br />Actually, I don't believe the Forge-ites are still using the term (at least the vets, maybe not the 'rookies') but I find it convenient for pigeon-holing ("stereotyping"). <br /><br />However, maybe in using loaded terms I lost my point: is this the only purpose of playing an RPG? To challenge the players and (as players) to face a challenge? Certainly for some games that's the case (Dungeons and Dragons, for example). For other games, "facing challenge" is a secondary consideration. GURPS promotes itself as a universal RPG, with a stated purpose (or expectation of play) that paints itself into a corner (unless a GM disregards what's stated in the "rules").JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-70738681073253389552009-11-12T20:39:33.466-08:002009-11-12T20:39:33.466-08:00>>But that’s just it. GMs are supposed to “c...>>But that’s just it. GMs are supposed to “challenge” their players? Really? Your telling me GURPS is designed to facilitate a gamist creative agenda?<br /><br />There is absolutely no such thing as a "gamist creative agenda" unless one is specifically designing from a Forge point of view.JimLotFPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-89894070341782353502009-11-12T19:51:47.526-08:002009-11-12T19:51:47.526-08:00Looking forward to reading your thoughts Ryan.
I ...Looking forward to reading your thoughts Ryan.<br /><br />I actually grew disenchanted with GURPS in the 7th or 8th grade...pretty much shortly after I'd generated my first (and only) character for my friend's 1st edition copy. We then realized we could do nothing with it without at least one or more supplements (well, we could have had a fairly dull...for our 13 year old minds...game session, one without magic or high-technology or superpowers).<br /><br />"...That's probably not what someone like you would be into..." <br /><br />Hey, man, I'm into all sorts of stuff. As I said, I might pick up GURPS one of these days just to use with a setting I think is cool but that doesn't have a system (e.g. The Prisoner) or whose system has some "issues" (e.g. Blue Planer). Personally I HAVE been playing role-playing games for years and I probably COULD set my own expectations/objectives for the game if needed...but there are other people out there who aren't so "blessed." And anyway...do I WANT to do so...eh, maybe.<br /><br />Remember, I also can't stand skill systems...see Axiom #1.<br />; )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-48183151749346766982009-11-12T19:51:33.368-08:002009-11-12T19:51:33.368-08:00"There is even a sidebar on “dungeons” (!!) a..."There is even a sidebar on “dungeons” (!!) and creating site-based adventures."<br /><br />And even then that section is lifted straight from third edition (and possibly even earlier). I was a bit surprised they kept it in.<br /><br />"I find that the expectations of a given GURPS game tend to be found in the supplements."<br /><br />This is more true than ever with the 4e supplements. The days of laser-focused supplements like The Prisoner or Age of Napoleon or what have you are long gone. Now you get these 256 page hardbacks about certain "genres". Even the Martial Arts book is as much about how to run a martial arts-themed campaign as about listings of new styles, weapons, and techniques. So you get plenty of info there, but yeah, you end up having to plunk down for (and wade through) yet <i>another</i> hefty hardcover.David Larkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04133630988557116729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-48257284638149627472009-11-12T18:56:12.232-08:002009-11-12T18:56:12.232-08:00I used to love GURPS in high school, but I grew di...I used to love GURPS in high school, but I grew disenchanted with it in college. That being said, I still have the GURPS Steampunk source book, my only remaining GURPS book, because it's so chock full of great ideas that I can't bear to part with it. <br /><br />I find that the expectations of a given GURPS game tend to be found in the supplements. That's probably not what someone like you is into, but I always found different flavor and direction in the different types of books, which usually had lots of great ideas for campaigns and adventures, both site based and otherwise, as well as different setups for the same game world/setting. <br /><br />If I were to buy a GURPS supplement now, it would probably be to mine it for ideas for a Savage Worlds game.... that's a generic system that I find to be much easier to handle, for both players and GMs. <br /><br />...GURPS also had a few nitpicky bits I had trouble getting over, but that'll be a post on my blog someday, perhaps.DMWieghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03682249561077936507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-56780342332163185802009-11-12T18:56:07.802-08:002009-11-12T18:56:07.802-08:00You're welcome (and by the way, I played a lot...You're welcome (and by the way, I played a lot of Car Wars back in the day myself...hard to say which I preferred more between CW and BattleTech...).JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-67989555320201289232009-11-12T17:37:10.352-08:002009-11-12T17:37:10.352-08:00"I don’t personally believe all role-playing ..."I don’t personally believe all role-playing games can be distilled to universal game mechanics."<br /><br />Me neither. I always likes the IDEA of GURPS (especially since I like Steve Jackson, LOVED Illuminati and Car Wars, etc.) but never got around to playing it myself. There are too many other good systems out there to be explored, in my view. Thanks for a thought-provoking post.Carter Soleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01286436801953647693noreply@blogger.com