tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post2120815965630424215..comments2024-03-28T15:54:00.960-07:00Comments on B/X BLACKRAZOR: B/X Advancement Problems (Redux)JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-70223559337083971462010-11-15T06:57:06.755-08:002010-11-15T06:57:06.755-08:00three years to reach Name level is waaay outside o...<i>three years to reach Name level is waaay outside of my "acceptable limits" for advancement</i><br /><br />With respect, I'd submit that this is where your "problem" lies. Since you've already established that the XP guidelines don't work within your "acceptable limits," maybe you should define--clearly--what those limits are, and then work backwards from there.<br /><br />For example, if you believe that a character should reach Name level after X sessions, then there's your formula for how many XP to award each session. Done.<br /><br />Otherwise, you're looking at a never-ending series of XP tweaks to approximate what you feel is acceptable.Erin Smalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16085303583608172242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-24875571811566662642010-11-14T22:23:23.921-08:002010-11-14T22:23:23.921-08:00i definitely see what you mean about hauling huge ...i definitely see what you mean about hauling huge treasures around. Making my players deal with an overly-large treasure hoard was fun once, but i don't want to make it a regular feature of the game. That's part of the reason I adopted Delta's stone-weight system over B/X's coin-weight. <br /><br />500 coins per stone (roughly 36 coins per pound) and PCs carry stones equal to Str at 60'/turn, twice Str at 30'/turn. If you're not too concerned about the economic angle, or making the PCs overly wealthy, something like this can at least make those treasures a bit easier to haul around. <br /><br />I'm intrigued by the aspect of XP for magic items - had forgotten about that. I'll have to dig out my DMG and see if it's something I can harvest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-27854393495143420342010-11-14T20:46:43.149-08:002010-11-14T20:46:43.149-08:00Is it just me, or has anyone else ever experienced...Is it just me, or has anyone else ever experienced the "Hell, with this recent haul, I'm a zillionaire in comparison, why adventure any more?" from a player who's just hit it relatively rich?<br /><br />I know that there are plenty of ways to get PCs to spend their hard won loot, potions, healing spells, general cost of living, etc., but it always seems like a cheap way out when the DM has to figure out a way to get PCs to spend their money in order to keep the motivation up. I've never been successful in getting someone to bite on the old "build a keep" line. A shortcoming of mine I suppose.<br /><br />Still...Once I start handing out high GP awards, it's always created issues.<br /><br />Anyone else have this problem too?Gamer Dudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05006232842482959060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-87572144296046067692010-11-13T07:01:23.220-08:002010-11-13T07:01:23.220-08:00This isn't really a problem I've thought a...This isn't really a problem I've thought about, though in designing my megadungeon I was keeping in mind the amount of treasure I was putting in. <br /><br />It does seem there are a variety of options to choose from, and I'm going to have to keep them in mind for my PbP game.David The Archmagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649391406526258069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-34406933001368539502010-11-13T05:24:15.804-08:002010-11-13T05:24:15.804-08:00@Pat
I also like leaving the logistics to the play...@Pat<br />I also like leaving the logistics to the players. In one of my modules, the big payoff is at the end, but getting it back to civilization is not "hand-waved." There are literally tons of coins, plus other treasure. An adventure where figuring such things out would be (to me) an interesting challenge.<br /><br />Another method is to place a comparable amount of treasure (GP value-wise), in a different form; like artwork, jewels, or gems. I find this more in keeping with adventure stories like Conan's "Jewels of Gwahlur" or "Tower of the Elephant" (or Hammett's "Maltese Falcon" for that matter) where a valuable MacGuffin is the goal, rather than stealing pocket change from orcs. You can decide whether to award the full GP value of the item(s) or just what they manage to sell it for is up to you.Bigharahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14232940345429292782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-899263990578623902010-11-12T22:13:04.453-08:002010-11-12T22:13:04.453-08:00I think your solution is as sound as any other. I...I think your solution is as sound as any other. I'm tempted to dispense with the xp-for-monsters killed rule, since "I think" that will lead to a more interesting game-style, one in which the players rob, intimidate and bargain with the monsters.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-27304881268809991722010-11-12T21:03:12.890-08:002010-11-12T21:03:12.890-08:00I think there are a few relatively simple tricks y...I think there are a few relatively simple tricks you can pull. The easiest combo, for my money, would be multiplying how much xp the treasure is worth, while simultaneously reducing the weight of coinage to a more real-world level. At 50 or 80 coins to the pound, you no longer need nearly so many tons of gold; especially if you're including a lot of gems and jewelry in the higher-level loot.<br /><br />I also like the concept of requiring treasure to be spent to garner the xp. This keeps Conan and Fafhrd & the Mouser spending their cash and hungry for more. As well as giving opportunities for characterization in terms of WHAT exactly they're spending all that loot on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-53985404957315040022010-11-12T20:09:14.184-08:002010-11-12T20:09:14.184-08:00It seems like a simple solution would be to multip...It seems like a simple solution would be to multiply the xp per gold by a set amount. 5x or 10x XP per GP will still reward treasure hunting adventurers without having to re-write existing adventures.<br /><br />In my games (I play Pathfinder) I usually just level my players after each longer "adventure" (8-12 sessions), but I do understand wanting to emphasize the rewards for actually defeating foes and gathering treasure.Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11286544022662495363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-69150580344969094892010-11-12T20:06:28.279-08:002010-11-12T20:06:28.279-08:00I'm with Pat. I've found that after two ye...I'm with Pat. I've found that after two years in the campaign requiring them to burn gold for xp that it just plain works. Advancement is at a decent pace (especially since I eased up on being so stingy); there aren't great mounds of cash accumulating; and they have interesting choices for where to put it all.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-91145145335939019232010-11-12T17:45:00.597-08:002010-11-12T17:45:00.597-08:00Probably more than you want to do, but this post m...Probably more than you want to do, but this post might have useful ideas: <a rel="nofollow">http://wheel-of-samsara.blogspot.com/search/label/Experience%2FAdvancement</a>Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-35293326378092313422010-11-12T17:44:46.432-08:002010-11-12T17:44:46.432-08:00I run the game as-is, and haven't had an issue...I run the game as-is, and haven't had an issue of slow advancement. I throw in some big money-items during the game (amazing how fast you burn through the treasure when you hire an alchemist who costs you 3k a month to make potions, and occasionally find a cool item or two for about four to five times the cost they would have in 3e), but my last B/X game (actually LL/AEC game) ran up to level 9 in only a few months of play.Dyson Logoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14352404068239792475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-61482489120646789602010-11-12T17:35:14.675-08:002010-11-12T17:35:14.675-08:00I am doing two things:
a. Use the house rule that...I am doing two things:<br /><br />a. Use the house rule that players have to spend the money to get XP. So they won't be carrying around piles of money. It'll be interesting to see what bizarre things they end up bankrolling at higher levels.<br /><br />b. I will simply have stinking gigantic piles of coins, jewels, statues, and other junk. As far as logistics on getting it out of the dungeon, that's their problem, not mine. And as far as inflation goes, I'm not aiming for verisimilitude there. It just won't happen. Who's going to complain?Pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381628150285913370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-92099256107887026602010-11-12T17:32:15.396-08:002010-11-12T17:32:15.396-08:00Holmes assumes 6 to 12 adventures per level and sp...Holmes assumes 6 to 12 adventures per level and specifically states that this rate of advancement holds throughout a character's career, but that's likely because he follows OD&D in comparing a monster's Hit Dice to the level of the PC who defeated it to see if they get full XP. So a 3rd-level character gets only full XP for 3+ HD monsters, but 1/2 for 2 HD monsters and 1/3 for 1 HD monsters.<br /><br />Anyway, I think this is a case where the <i>rules</i> of B/X retain the assumptions of OD&D when it comes to experience gain and advancement, while (perhaps) the <i>philosophy</i> of the designers favored a faster rate of progression. So, from my perspective, the fault isn't with the rules themselves, which are definitely in line with OD&D, but with Moldvay/Cook, who didn't make adjustments to the rules to account for their (possibly) changed stance on advancement rates.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-33969718154000909992010-11-12T17:16:27.067-08:002010-11-12T17:16:27.067-08:00@ JM: As I said, I believe it is implied, not outr...@ JM: As I said, I believe it is implied, not outright stated. <br /><br />Yes, it only specifically refers to achieving 2nd level. However this IS in contradiction to Holmes's writing...at least, I thought it was (I can't find the reference in Holmes to cite, so perhaps that's a slip of my memory).<br /><br />Regardless, as stated I do not think Moldvay's own Castle Amber is an aberration of dungeon stocking. Likewise, there is enough treasure XP in B2 to take an average size party to 3rd or 4th level (assuming survival).JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-85887647523978829512010-11-12T16:55:19.616-08:002010-11-12T16:55:19.616-08:00B/X does not specify a "fairly slow rate of a...<i>B/X does not specify a "fairly slow rate of advancement" and (I would say) implies a shorter time between levels...in design if not in outright text (see page B61).</i><br /><br>Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Moldvay only says that it takes 3-4 adventures/sessions <i>to reach 2nd level</i>, which is about right. He does not say that this is the same rate of advancement for every level, does he? Likewise -- and, again, correct me if I'm wrong -- the Expert Rules are themselves silent on this question, so I'm not sure you can draw a universally applicable conclusion from that small comment on B61.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-12195113596128061182010-11-12T16:48:13.815-08:002010-11-12T16:48:13.815-08:00For White Plume Mountain you just give out xp for ...For White Plume Mountain you just give out xp for magic items because that's the math the author/TSR used when editing it (because it's an AD&D module). Every +1 sword the party finds is 200 lbs of gold you don't have to add to the dungeon.Fumershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14156302616243889562noreply@blogger.com