tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post1095816619743456341..comments2024-03-29T06:49:41.107-07:00Comments on B/X BLACKRAZOR: 1st Level Magic-UsersJBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-69406128492122929262011-10-28T14:49:10.769-07:002011-10-28T14:49:10.769-07:00Next Medium I play is gonna be roleplayed as "...Next Medium I play is gonna be roleplayed as "Jet Li in a Wizard Cap" ;PAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-78758443850385776922010-04-16T05:36:47.478-07:002010-04-16T05:36:47.478-07:00If magic-users in your game fight with swords at t...If magic-users in your game fight with swords at the level of Elric and Gandalf, fair enough. If that's the way M-Us are played, I wouldn't think d4 hit dice would be appropriate. And didn't Elric usually wear armor? My guess is that Elric is a fighter/magic-user and that Gandalf is something above human. I don't think claiming that Elric's use of a sword means that D&D magic-users should throw daggers is a very compelling one. <br /><br />I can appreciate the idea that a only a few spells once in a while adds to the mystery/occult vibe, but that certainly isn't the only vibe I'm going for in my game. <br /><br />As I said, it comes down to flavor. Flavor is why I'm using a magic blast. Despite arguments to the contrary, the only substantial objections I've seen have been from a standpoint of flavor.<br /><br />Like I wrote in my post, my magic-users will fling magic and yours will fling daggers. The orcs won't be able to tell the difference.Lord Kilgorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08100447170529010062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-49420815050654954502010-04-16T00:35:36.618-07:002010-04-16T00:35:36.618-07:00@ Flip: Well, sure...in cartoons and comics (thing...@ Flip: Well, sure...in cartoons and comics (thing Ariel or any other sorcerer in Thundarr the Barbarian) people shoot "energy blasts" all the time...I don't think of that as the literary tradition on which D&D is based, though.<br /><br />Just me, though.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-61267108736012907962010-04-15T19:26:41.432-07:002010-04-15T19:26:41.432-07:00@Flip
No bandoleers for you!@Flip<br /><br />No bandoleers for you!Norman J. Harman Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01319655075997712313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-68218876411140312082010-04-15T16:02:39.926-07:002010-04-15T16:02:39.926-07:00Well, for one, there's "Venger" from...Well, for one, there's "Venger" from the D&D animated series. Tons of wizards from comics, such as Dr. Strange, to give an example. <br /><br />Gandalf and Elric aren't really D&D style wizards, anyway, because high-level D&D wizards don't waive around a sword with anywhere NEAR the frequency they do, even if the sword is magical. Hell, D&D wizards can't even wield swords to begin with. I think a PC Gandalf really has to be an elf until you get to 2nd Edition with dual-classing.<br /><br />By the lower-middle levels, a D&D mage is already tossing spells left and right in a flagrant display of magic power. I don't see why that flavor shouldn't extend to the first level, and I don't see why one detracts from the "mystery/occult" nature of D&D while the other doesn't.<br /><br />By it's very nature, being a MU singles you out from the crowd. While simple magic like a zap might be an afterthought to you, it is a wonder to the vast numbers of simple peasant folk who populate the country.<br /><br />Of course, it comes down to what you think is fun. The knife-throwing wizard isn't for me, but if you like it, that's all that matters.Paradigm Travelerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13120082187896921402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-36182103469889401602010-04-15T07:20:56.145-07:002010-04-15T07:20:56.145-07:00@ Flip & KG: I see your points, guys. I'm ...@ Flip & KG: I see your points, guys. I'm really not writing this just to play devil's advocate.<br /><br />However, if we do look at the MU from a "fantasy" perspective, and you say the lack of regular, magical "blasting" attacks detract from the fantasy flavor in D&D, I have to wonder, um...which fantasy film/lit are you holding up as the "true" fantasy?<br /><br />For example, I don't recall Gandalf going around "blasting" folks...nor Elric...no Turjan (from Vance's the Dying Earth). Most of these "users of magic" normally did combat with weapons...the fact that they also "used magic" set them apart from non-wizards, but their blasting of folks only occurred occasionally, not even every combat encounter, let alone every round. Neither did the sorcerers that appeared in Howardian fiction.<br /><br />Personally, much as I enjoyed the Harry Potter books, I was never very impressed with Rowling's "magical combat." And even while I can see it as reasonable in Rowling's wizarding world, is it proper to have it in D&D?<br /><br />I mean, depending on your style and the type of campaign world you run, having magic-users able to so flagrantly display magic power...well, it kind of detracts from the whole "mystery/occult" nature of magic if it is used commonly and easily (even if it is only used to minor effect).JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-41340812403047693152010-04-15T06:30:24.652-07:002010-04-15T06:30:24.652-07:00@JB: Fair enough. I've never been sold enough ...@JB: Fair enough. I've never been sold enough on Vancian magic to worry much about degrading its flavor. As far as I'm concerned, it's a great game mechanic for spell casting and not much more.<br /><br />As for the post itself, I guess I don't see any reason for or against magic blast in there.<br /><br />You suggest a bandoleer of daggers instead of magic blast, which is a very common suggestion. That is 100% expressly what I'm trying to avoid for reasons of flavor. Maybe I've read the wrong books or watched the wrong movies, but I can't think of any fictional wizards who spend most of their time flinging knives.<br /><br />Magic blast is not an "extra ability" in the sense that M-Us can now participate in combat in a way that they haven't been able to before. It's pure window dressing.<br /><br />Your flavor favors daggers for 1d4 and mine favors magic for 1d4. That's all.<br /><br />I just wanted make sure that it was flavor and not something else.Lord Kilgorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08100447170529010062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-85849327252673292772010-04-14T23:40:06.252-07:002010-04-14T23:40:06.252-07:00I don't think anyone contends that MUs are wea...I don't think anyone contends that MUs are weak or don't pull their weight at 1st level. Every gaming group has those stories where SLEEP ended a low-level "boss" battle even before it began. The point is that, as one of your own examples illustrates, the MU is forced to hold back slinging the magic until circumstances are juuuust right. <br /><br />That means for those players who really want to play a magical wizard type, they are essentially forced to play a pale imitation of an unarmored fighter for most of the day. I mean, the mental image of some dude in robes throwing dart after dart makes me think of Friday night at the local KKK bar, not any scene one might see in a plausible dungeon. <br /><br />Or how many fantasy depictions of wizards have you seen with bandoliers of throwing knives? You're not playing a MU at that point, you're practically playing a terribly ineffective thief. The knives might do as much damage, on paper, as the "magic blasts", but the image in my head is of Jet Li in wizard's cap.<br /><br />I can see your point that it takes away from the Vancian flavor of D&D magic, but I think that in this case, the Vancian mechanic takes away from the fantasy magic flavor of the magic-user. Game mechanics should serve to establish or reinforce the style and mood you want for your game.Paradigm Travelerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13120082187896921402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-17202236079967394742010-04-14T18:28:45.803-07:002010-04-14T18:28:45.803-07:00@ Lord K: In all honesty, I think it takes away fr...@ Lord K: In all honesty, I think it takes away from the Vancian flavor of D&D magic. But IN ADDITION, for the reasons I outlined above, I don't think magic-users are so weak at 1st level that they need the extra ability.<br /><br />Let me just make a quick add: if I WAS playing a 1st level magic-user, I would probably spend a good 20 - 40 gp of my starting funds on a bandolier of throwing knives. Which (considering they can be retrieved after battle, unlike arrows) pretty much accomplishes the same effect as a D4 strength "magic blast."<br /><br />I don't think D&D is the right game engine for a Hogwarts style ("Expelliarmus!") game. But that's just my opinion.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-77988640175572164082010-04-14T08:17:45.723-07:002010-04-14T08:17:45.723-07:00Mages in my D&D games have had an "Arcane...Mages in my D&D games have had an "Arcane Blast" power for many years. A common house rule back in the day was to allow magic-users to use a sling for 1d4 damage. My "arcane Blast" power is basically a sling converted to a power all MUs have. Instead of using the sling, they get to point their finger and a magic dart shoots out. They have to roll to hit to do the 1d4 damage -- just like they were picking up stones and firing them from their sling. It has the exact same game effect as allowing the use of a sling, but it fits the idea using "magic" better.Randallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13879930955049101533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-29199327896182485492010-04-14T07:57:06.548-07:002010-04-14T07:57:06.548-07:00Out of curiosity, why the NO vote? Simply because ...Out of curiosity, why the NO vote? Simply because of flavor?Lord Kilgorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08100447170529010062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-31785132816878096102010-04-14T07:54:31.517-07:002010-04-14T07:54:31.517-07:00Great post, even though I disagree with you about ...Great post, even though I disagree with you about the Zap power. I like the idea of the Magic User getting to do mundane tasks in a magical way so I'd let them light a fire without a tinder box if they have their wand, and other minor actions as well.<br /><br />At 1st level all of the characters are relatively weak and vulnerable. A smart Magic User is certainly not at a disadvantage compared to the other classes.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-50422420294257181532010-04-14T06:37:38.453-07:002010-04-14T06:37:38.453-07:00I've been present at a TPK from a Sleep spell....I've been present at a TPK from a Sleep spell. Indeed, it is nothing to sneeze at.BigFellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03052419088140204154noreply@blogger.com