tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post573015524058887535..comments2024-03-29T06:49:41.107-07:00Comments on B/X BLACKRAZOR: B/X Weapons & ShieldsJBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-77401374375761905542011-06-27T15:57:21.474-07:002011-06-27T15:57:21.474-07:00@ Fumers (Luke): Actually, I didn't want ANY o...@ Fumers (Luke): Actually, I didn't want ANY of these to work against purple worms or creatures of 15+ hit dice. In fact I'll probably edit the post to say this outright (T-Rex's are too big to be brained no a warhammer).<br />; )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-47615806443538911312011-06-27T10:57:08.998-07:002011-06-27T10:57:08.998-07:00"Seems a bit too munchkin for a system that&#..."Seems a bit too munchkin for a system that's as simple and straightforward as B/X."<br /><br />'Munchkin? No, Butch, this is far, far from munchkin.' -- Marcellus Wallace.<br /><br />'I do not think it means what you think it means.' --Inigo Montoya.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-51850887969532903302011-06-27T10:34:31.404-07:002011-06-27T10:34:31.404-07:00Great post JD.
I've been playtesting some simi...Great post JD.<br />I've been playtesting some similar rules with great success for a while, and I decided to share them <a href="http://tsojcanth.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/why-are-weapons-different/" rel="nofollow">here</a> :)<br /><br />Any kind of feedback is totally appreciated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-3963299265613302732011-06-27T09:50:06.736-07:002011-06-27T09:50:06.736-07:00Interested to see how your playtest goes. I'v...Interested to see how your playtest goes. I've been following your blog for a while now, and I've really liked the direction you've taken B/X...until this post. Seems a bit too munchkin for a system that's as simple and straightforward as B/X. I bet the players will like it...until they start getting knocked out by opponent's maces or bleeding out from goblin shortswords. B/X is deadly enough without the bonuses, I think.Jason Gunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206196654542839692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-88136723687064623542011-06-27T09:18:10.348-07:002011-06-27T09:18:10.348-07:00JB, I like how for you fast-easy-simple means weap...JB, I like how for you fast-easy-simple means weapon rules that include a special exception for purple worms.Fumershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14156302616243889562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-16329788237363247032011-06-27T09:11:51.547-07:002011-06-27T09:11:51.547-07:00Gregory, that is almost exactly what I'm doing...Gregory, that is almost exactly what I'm doing, except on a natural 19 all weapons have a chance to penetrate armor, stun, delay, etc, depending upon whether it's blunt, edged or piercing. I also bump damage dice up one step for Fighting Men at 15th level.<br /><br />Anyway, I ran 1 and 2e for years and this is way faster. As you said, three columns.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-46215615573564676342011-06-27T05:41:49.257-07:002011-06-27T05:41:49.257-07:00Your ideas are neat. But way, way too complicated...Your ideas are neat. But way, way too complicated for my game.<br /><br />I just use a very simple damage by class chart with 3 columns. Small / 1 Hand / 2 Handed.<br /><br />As far as "Why don't they just choose the cheapest?" I figure that the only time that the cost of the weapon matters is at character generation, and at that point, if they want to use a 2H club, hey, more power too them. It's their character, have fun with whatever you want.<br /><br />In my game for starting characters I had a cleric start with a war hammer (now wielding a war hammer +2 at 6th level), a cleric started with a mace (now wielding a mace +1 at 5th level), a fighter wielding a military fork (now wielding spear +1 and shield), a dwarf with an axe and shield (went to a sword +1, +3 vs casters before dying), and a thief using a short sword and dagger.<br /><br />The fact that the clerics are using blunt weapons makes me laugh; I put no restrictions on them. However, they know that if they choose a 1H weapon, they'll do 1-6 or if they choose a 2H weapon, they'll do 1-8. Fighters are 1-8 and 1-10 for 1H/2H respectively. Thieves know that they'll do 1-6 with a dagger, a short sword, a long sword or a 2H pole arm.<br /><br />It's not complicated at all, adds enough variety so they have a choice, gives them flexibility in choosing magic weapons they can find, and lets them personalize their character without feeling gimped by a variable weapon chart that penalizes their image of what they think their character should be.<br /><br />But that's just me. I stole most of my ideas about it from you, if it's any consolation. I personally don't think I would never use anything you wrote in this post. It seems like a lot when trying to do something simple.Gregoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13691550494650829835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-31644134577829477492011-06-26T15:46:48.493-07:002011-06-26T15:46:48.493-07:00@ Anathematician: Well, the whole point was to giv...@ Anathematician: Well, the whole point was to give PCs a reason to purchase different weapons besides personal style; saving weapon options (or using variable weapon damage...which I'm not a fan of, by the way) for fighters just means fighters are the only ones with the incentive to purchase something other than a club.<br /><br />@ Kaprou: It represents slashing open an artery or piercing some organ causing internal bleeding (yes, yes..."so how does one bandage a bleeding organ?" Who knows...). I would rule that EACH un-bandaged "bleeder" causes 1 hp loss from the character; however, it only takes a single round to bandage ALL wounds and stop the bleeding (just how long do you want to wait...?). <br /><br />As a DM, I'm used to keeping track of initiative and character actions and it's a simple note to out a check mark (or multiple check marks) by a PC's name and then call out "okay, bleed for more damage" at the beginning of each round.<br /><br />I haven't talked about how this affects weapon using humanoids/opponents yet. That's a separate post.<br />; )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-79021192593162587812011-06-26T14:11:29.337-07:002011-06-26T14:11:29.337-07:00Fighter balance issue idea #724362935628346.
Why ...Fighter balance issue idea #724362935628346.<br /><br />Why not only allow fighters variable weapon damage. Superior training allows to seek to soft spots, find the chinks in the armor, find the holes in the defense AND exploit them! Fighters just do it better.<br /><br />Raggi grants only fighters an attack bonus over +1. Neat ideaAnathematicianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09690147218442114230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-58436557372533169552011-06-26T12:42:09.162-07:002011-06-26T12:42:09.162-07:00Hm... does the 1 hp bleed a round count per hit, o...Hm... does the 1 hp bleed a round count per hit, or representing cuts generally? (Would a person hit with a sword 3 times bleed 3 hit points a round?)<br /><br />Less worried about NPCs. More worried about making sure PCs remember to track it when swords hit THEM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-88422576170052680202011-06-26T11:39:37.945-07:002011-06-26T11:39:37.945-07:00Thanks, JB. I prefer to give a bonus for heavier s...Thanks, JB. I prefer to give a bonus for heavier shields and have something in place very close to your proposed option. <br /><br />I use class based damage instead of variable damage and have no problem resolving conflicts. It may not be as stripped down as d6/d8 for everything, but it's still simple enough a little kid could track it. Yeah, it's something to account for, but it definitely isn't tricky.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-34742881540668211452011-06-26T10:10:49.096-07:002011-06-26T10:10:49.096-07:00@ Rich: See, I don't agree with you...I think ...@ Rich: See, I don't agree with you...I think it all comes down to experience, and possibly circumstance.<br /><br />If we're fighting in a narrow dungeon corridor, the knife fighter needs much less room to maneuver, and the two-hander will be at a decided disadvantage. Even in the open, a knife fighter can strike multiple times for every one wind-up and swing of a claymore...and if the knife fighter can get corps-a-corps ("body to body") with the two-hander, the claymore fighter will be at a decided disadvantage.<br /><br />All of which is represented by the D20 attack roll. If the knife fighter misses and the two-hander hits for max damage, the swordsman was able to get off a brutal slash (or pounding with the hilt, if the knife-fighter has enough hit points to withstand the blow) while the dagger man is trying to get in close. If the two-hander misses, the knifer twirled inside his guard (or under it for short classes), and gouged him in the side or belly...or plunged knife into jugular in the case of a death blow.<br /><br />@ Imago: The off-hand weapon for defense is used the same as the buckler/targe shield. The difference is the shield is easier for the average Joe to use (hence the need for a high DEX or level). The advantage of the shield at later stages of the game becomes evident when magical shields are found. Without enchantment, though, the higher ability of shield-use is represented by more hit points at greater levels.<br /><br />@ IG (Heron): Yes, I still consider class-based damage to be a valid way to model combat, but it's pretty fanciful (as in fantasy/heroic), which isn't my current cup-o-tea. Plus the D6 for everything is a lot easier/simpler!<br /><br />B/X doesn't model skills or proficiencies, and I personally like that...it feels more "Howardian" to me (Conan would use axes, war maces, swords, or "long knives" all with equal skill...usually it was simply a matter of what was handy at the time). I figure characters are "skilled" with whichever weapons they choose to use, hence their reason for the purchase of said weapon. I understand why you're coming from the place you are, seeing as how your axe wielding dwarf has a dagger +1 which does more damage than any of your axes. And yet, you've still found it useful to keep an axe always in hand (given the ability to throw it), and save your dagger for when you really need it (like against the gargoyle). Hopefully the above rule will make it easier to stick with that choice without regret.<br /><br />For me, it comes down to a role-playing decision; your CHARACTER may simply prefer one kind of weapon over another and I suspect your fighting style shows that (like throwing axes before closing to melee). If you feel like you're wasting a "perfectly good magic weapon" you can always give it to another party member. Or you can just keep it stashed in reserve for when you really need it (as Stanley the thief seems to be doing with that mace +1).<br /><br />@ Kaprou: If you don't want to track the bleeding thing, have opponents withdraw from combat to bind their wound as soon as it occurs. In this way, it's kind of like the "bleeding ability" causes the opponent to simply "lose a round" of fighting to recover. Less stuff to track and the PC still gets his advantage.<br />; )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-91807735147573933112011-06-26T07:52:43.797-07:002011-06-26T07:52:43.797-07:00JB, normally I agree with a lot of what you come u...JB, normally I agree with a lot of what you come up with for BX on this blog. In this one case however, I think you missed the boat completely. <br /><br />You just came up with a list of individual rules for each class of weapons. How is that any simpler than a small chart of variable weapon damage (already included in the Marsh/Cook expert book) which you can consult once, write down on a character sheet and then use from then on without thought? <br /><br />I actually like some of these rules quite a bit, especially the two weapons at the same time rule, but I'm not sure that they model reality any better than the variable damage system. It almost seems like you are trying too hard to adhere to the d6 damage system out of a stubborn desire not to retract earlier posts about the joys of d6 damage.<br /><br />Variable damage system:<br /><br />Dagger (d4) can kill a normal man with one hit.... <br /><br />However, a two handed sword (1d10) would have a much better chance to kill a normal man in one shot.<br /><br />If I was facing an opponent with a knife, and I have a two handed sword, I would feel pretty confident about my odds of winning unless he was a much more experienced fighter (more HP and higher chance of hitting! - aka a 10th level fighter with a knife vs. a 1st level fighter with the two handed sword, bet on the 10th level fighter).<br /><br />Anyway, I personally like some of the options you laid out above, but I don't think they fit with your philosophy. I may use a couple of these ideas along with the variable weapon damage option from X25. <br /><br />BTW: I also love axes so I gave them 2d4 on my modified BX variable weapon chart for my home rules.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05449933184261945913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-28300723502575484622011-06-26T07:50:19.772-07:002011-06-26T07:50:19.772-07:00Iron Goat: Yeah, I switched to class-based damage ...Iron Goat: Yeah, I switched to class-based damage a while ago, and each weapon has some ability associated with it, like axes have a chance to stun on 19, flails ignore shields, two handed weapons have a chance to cause a knockdown, etc. I like these new rules by BR, although fighting defensively with an offhand weapon and gaining the same bonus as using a shield doesn't work for me. I just give dual wielders full damage from both weapons on a natural 20.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-16580175572265273002011-06-26T07:28:06.041-07:002011-06-26T07:28:06.041-07:00The argument for D6 damage makes sense to me when ...The argument for D6 damage makes sense to me when describing people who are specialists with particular weapons (a knife fighter knows the ins and outs of how to fight a guy with a sword, for example, and can kill you just as dead). For me, the argument breaks down when characters AREN'T specialists in those fighting styles...a magic user hucking a dagger, or a dwarf switching to his +1 dagger because it does more damage than his axe. It almost seems like damage would be by CLASS, or else require a proficiency system of some sort. Mind you, that's just based on the way the system gets explained.The Iron Goathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15839364742884404019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-36899279766153088292011-06-26T05:43:49.337-07:002011-06-26T05:43:49.337-07:00I think this is pretty cool. The one thing I'd...I think this is pretty cool. The one thing I'd change is the bleeding from swords. I've tried that sort of thing--it's a lot to keep track of.<br /><br />I had not thought of a knockout from max damage with a blunt object. That's my favorite on the list.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-76516863388413498092011-06-26T05:21:28.424-07:002011-06-26T05:21:28.424-07:00@ TS: Nope, this only applies to melee weapons.
T...@ TS: Nope, this only applies to melee weapons.<br /><br />Though in the past I've considered giving longbows and crossbows a +1 attack bonus, I think this already somewhat modeled by the "short range" (+1) category. Still, I'd be willing to consider it.<br />: )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-8881842569421257732011-06-26T05:13:25.094-07:002011-06-26T05:13:25.094-07:00So, since Bows and Crossbows require 2Hands, they ...So, since Bows and Crossbows require 2Hands, they now do d8, correct? :D<br /><br />;DTimeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-27636451198632808592011-06-26T01:37:47.545-07:002011-06-26T01:37:47.545-07:00I'd be interested in hearing how these rules p...I'd be interested in hearing how these rules play out in the game, and whether they meet your criteria. As rules go, they're not bad. Might have to give them a play test myself.Simon Forsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01243845335993440168noreply@blogger.com