tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post4250736755181194953..comments2024-03-28T00:41:13.514-07:00Comments on B/X BLACKRAZOR: Learning To FishJBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-29304619069334913662022-07-19T08:53:23.000-07:002022-07-19T08:53:23.000-07:00That may have been part of the original intent, bu...That may have been part of the original intent, but the lawsuit re AD&D was resolved (in Arneson's favor) by 1981. The basic line (which was heavily supported by TSR for years) wouldn't have affected the royalties paid on the 1E core books...and would have put more money in Arneson's pocket, I imagine.<br /><br />I think that the idea to alter the fashion in which basic sets "taught" new players (from Holmes to Moldvay to Mentzer) coincided with the changing demographic that was imagined by the company. They knew they were getting more kids into the game, they needed a way to market and sell to those kids. Choose Your Own Adventure books were popular at the time...it makes sense that Mentzer wrote his Basic book in that style. JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-82002389337082652042022-07-19T07:17:30.752-07:002022-07-19T07:17:30.752-07:00Keep in mind there is one thing we have not mentio...Keep in mind there is one thing we have not mentioned here, the proverbial elephant in the room.<br />Moldvay Basic and to a greater degree Mentzer Basic were created to split the D&D line away from AD&D so Gygax would not have to pay royalties on AD&D to Dave Arneson. Timothy S. Brannanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02923526503305233715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-22184288653653270942022-07-15T21:09:22.234-07:002022-07-15T21:09:22.234-07:00@ TimB:
You don’t sound like an asshole, man. You...@ TimB:<br /><br />You don’t sound like an asshole, man. You sound like an educator.<br /><br />I don’t disagree that additional development could only come (and most practically be acquired) from the act of playing. <br /><br />Here’s what I AM saying:<br /><br />1) the educational tool provided “back in the day” (the basic sets), only produced enough guidance to start, and little FURTHER guidance to supplement what was learned in play. Whether that was because the creators of the game didn’t understand what they’d made…or whether the DID and just made assumptions that folks would eventually “get it”…well, who knows? The end result was the same…little was given in the way of textual instruction to actually producing a long-lasting campaign.<br /><br />2) Regardless of how or the why of the books written in the past, my anecdotal experience is that they’re failing to even “jumpstart” the beginning of the learning process (i.e. giving the players to “do” so that they can develop/learn at the table). It’s all well and good to say ‘you’ll figure it out once you play/run a game,’ but the game has to first exist. Whether the old versions are outdated for the current generation, or the current version is a poor tutorial or…well, whatever. It doesn’t matter. It ain’t getting the job done.<br /><br />Telling would-be players “just find a game to join” is a poor excuse for instruction.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-19777934347554758472022-07-15T13:09:55.773-07:002022-07-15T13:09:55.773-07:00Back when I was working on flight simulation softw...Back when I was working on flight simulation software with Navy pilots back in the 90s (I was measuring how people mentally rotate objects in 3D space) the question we always asked was this "how many hours would a pilot have to log in JUST a simulator for you to be comfortable getting on a plane with them?"<br />Most people correctly will say they would never get on a plane with that pilot regardless of the hours spent.<br /><br />At the risk of sounding like "that asshole" I have say "Yeah? We all know this. The best way to learn is to do." <br />There are though a couple of factors to consider.<br /><br />1. Holmes Basic and to degree Moldvay Basic were designed to clean up the existing rules of Original D&D. Their purpose was still largely a guide and they are listed as Editors, not authors despite the re-writing of a lot text. Mentzer Basic (and the Denning/Brown set from 1991) were designed to be a learning tool. The Denning/Brown 91 version even adopted structured reading guidelines to aid in the learning process. There is a key element here that I will get too in a bit.<br /><br />2. Not everyone, and indeed for a good amount of time in the late 70s and early 80s had access to a group that knew how to play, so there were no groups to model behavior from. These books, while instructional guides, were not designed to be "read and learn" they were always designed as "read, do, and learn." That's just basic educational practice going back to John Dewey. 1938's "Experience and Education" as one example.<br /><br />What purpose do these book serve? They provide the means for any group to discover the best way for them to play the game. They read, they learn, they do, they re-learn. In the absence of teachers this is the only option they have. Recent sales numbers brought to light by Benjamin Riggs in his upcoming book "Slaying the Dragon" show there was a significant need/want for these Basic books above and beyond the sales for the "adult" AD&D books.<br /><br />People often learned Original D&D and AD&D from a group, but people often learned Basic D&D on their own. The letters sections to Dragon, White Dwarf and other magazines at the time also bore this out with the questions raised. Sales demographics should that people picked up the various Basic D&D sets had no previous purchases of AD&D products. Anecdotally there are also many gamers who came into the hobby in the early 80s that also had no previous experience and no ties to previous AD&D or wargame groups. <br /><br />This is where they started to learn, not how the finished learning. That was done, and continued, on the game table.Timothy S. Brannanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02923526503305233715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-1509605766893972252022-07-14T01:02:02.565-07:002022-07-14T01:02:02.565-07:00No there is no full english version. Only a bare-b...No there is no full english version. Only a bare-bones version of the game rules were translated. (https://fomalhaut.lfg.hu/2011/01/17/sword-and-magic/)LanceTothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08553658125030883165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-81880835345821911282022-07-13T17:08:54.783-07:002022-07-13T17:08:54.783-07:00I was there in October for the first time and so f...I was there in October for the first time and so far the only time. I hope to remedy that soon. My friend and I really liked it. <br /><br />When I heard a couple of years ago that Leavenworth had a game store I wondered the same thing.Narmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08635665594860371230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-79171469095859370722022-07-13T13:38:31.632-07:002022-07-13T13:38:31.632-07:00Does his first edition have an English translation...Does his first edition have an English translation?JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-39393797824765656302022-07-13T08:42:35.461-07:002022-07-13T08:42:35.461-07:00Melan is working on the second edition of his game...Melan is working on the second edition of his game (K&M) and I've been told that it has a magnificent Dungeon Master's Guide. Maybe he'll translate this edition to English!LanceTothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08553658125030883165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-90881137353006886872022-07-12T20:40:51.378-07:002022-07-12T20:40:51.378-07:00Mentzer's Basic Set often gets maligned for be...Mentzer's Basic Set often gets maligned for being too hand-holdy, but I gotta say, when I read through it as an 11 year old, I got the general idea of how to run a game from it, and had plenty of confidence when I started running games for my friends. <br /><br />Now, I did get a lot of things wrong back then. And I am still developing as a DM almost 40 years later. But that set did exactly what it was designed to do: turn a kid with no experience with the game into a good enough DM that I could keep my friends entertained. Dennis Laffeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03053699552003336733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-72006598696430700372022-07-12T17:08:21.810-07:002022-07-12T17:08:21.810-07:00Just an aside, good to hear the Kave is still aliv...Just an aside, good to hear the Kave is still alive in Leavenworth. I was in several years ago when they first opened and I remember wondering if a gaming store could survive there. Good to see it has!Lesser McGrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10559577414740965759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-60608953510535581262022-07-12T15:51:54.329-07:002022-07-12T15:51:54.329-07:00Well, looking through the various blogs, even thos...Well, looking through the various blogs, even those that have played for decades are still learning how to play. The whole OSR thing is an attempt to recreate a type of game that has been lost to time. And there is a lot of picking at long scribed verses and arguing intention.<br />It is almost like a religion, splitting into factions and arguing interpretations. Even to the point of arguing what books belong in our canon bible.<br />A good DM can quickly teach new players, it is the art of DMing which is difficult. There are as many interpretations of the rules as there are tables running the game. Are some right and some wrong? Is it only important that everyone is having fun?<br />Personally I think the most important part is that everyone is having a good time with the type of game they have created. But, that group might enjoy a different type of game even more, if only they were aware of it.Stacktracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05778633676064958982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-22506288586702385832022-07-12T15:11:58.509-07:002022-07-12T15:11:58.509-07:00Okay ... I've rejoined your patreon at the tie...Okay ... I've rejoined your patreon at the tier that states, "I will happily link YOUR blog (if any) in my site's blog roll."<br /><br />My name appears on your blog under "Patreon Supporters," but maybe a lot of people don't know my name on your site links to my blog. Since I'm not on RSS anymore, and since the Patreon tier says you'll link my BLOG, please make it clear somewhere that you're linking to "Tao of D&D," and not me.<br /><br />Fairs fair.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-15627933019963784232022-07-12T13:42:29.563-07:002022-07-12T13:42:29.563-07:00I remember the first session I DM'd very clear...I remember the first session I DM'd very clearly, who was there and where they sat and how it went. Badly.<br /><br />I do think that BX and its clones still remain the ideal entry level game, but that nearly all the clones are pitched at people who already know what an RPG is and have likely played in one too.<br /><br />What is needed, I think, is to get all the good original DMing advice in Moldvay, B1, the DMG and the updates/clones and re-tell it in a modern way, with the benefit of desktop publishing tools. For me the easy bits of DMing are adventure development, running combat and organisation (the maths really) what I'm very bad at are vivid descriptions & narratives, and good adhoc NPC personalities (I can't do voices or even dialogues and have to abstract everything).Jacob72https://www.blogger.com/profile/17268402292420473229noreply@blogger.com