tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post1944052886591999036..comments2024-03-19T04:52:15.855-07:00Comments on B/X BLACKRAZOR: Comparing DMGs (P. 3b)JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-33847665168444365432015-12-29T00:23:48.971-08:002015-12-29T00:23:48.971-08:00I find the AD&D comments interesting. As one o... I find the AD&D comments interesting. As one of the first of its type - really the first book meant for the general public, I would give it more than "a pass." Only later where the rules written for people without direct contact to the community.Re-elm (realm) of Earthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853302865763371422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-25087080084204566692015-12-27T22:05:39.867-08:002015-12-27T22:05:39.867-08:00@ Ripper:
I don't think your question was par...@ Ripper:<br /><br />I don't think your question was particularly "loaded," though I didn't really understand what you were asking.<br /><br />I certainly wasn't trying to be "insulting," though I was being intentionally critical (negative). I'm not sure who that would have insulted, exactly. Gygax?<br /><br />I can't really hazard an answer to your elitist/legit question. I'm not a dictionary definition elitist, myself (I'm probably best categorized as a "snob"). However, when I previously said 5E was dumb it had nothing to do with being "dumbed down." I just meant it was kind of a feeble design, considering the resources one presumes the D&D brand-owners can command.<br /><br />Well, and dragonborn. I think they're pretty dumb in general (and, yes, I realize that's probably going to insult some folks).JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-7112986196511894412015-12-23T17:17:46.931-08:002015-12-23T17:17:46.931-08:00Okay, That was a loaded question and I do apologiz...Okay, That was a loaded question and I do apologize. <br /><br />I do believe that this post is unintentionally insulting, and you are going to get heat from it. <br /><br />I am enjoying this article because it forms a link which I am not willing to make myself, while I am interested in 5e, I am not going to go out and buy a copy of it. You are comparing 5e to a version that I do know, which makes this the perfect series.<br /><br />I have heard lots of things from other sources where they try to push off things which I believe are bad, as being a good thing. From what I can make out of it (read blatant speculation without really knowing the facts), 5e is extremely dumbed down. Is this an elitist attitude or a legit condemnation? Probably a bit of both. RipperXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506064393275174920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-52890790929268978692015-12-22T13:48:54.361-08:002015-12-22T13:48:54.361-08:00I was always glad that they didn't waste the p...I was always glad that they didn't waste the pages on instructions, you learned to play the game by playing the game, in our case, by managing games. <br /><br />This is a social game, & it is for nerds, we're smart cookies! We learned how to craft our adventures through just doing it! Were our games amazing? No, but that comes with time and experience. We talked to other Dungeon Masters, we listened to our players, we bought modules and learned from them. <br /><br />Do you feel that our lack of instructions hurt our personal game?RipperXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506064393275174920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-88655188542303694312015-12-22T09:10:33.597-08:002015-12-22T09:10:33.597-08:00What is the point of looking at it in a vacuum? I...What is the point of looking at it in a vacuum? I didn't learn to play Monopoly or RISK in a vacuum. I didn't learn to play baseball in a vacuum. Do the rules of baseball fall short in any way because I need others to give me good information on mastery of the game? Your premise of comparing them in a vacuum makes no sense.<br /><br />Of course 5e has better information about things that AD&D lacked. 5e came AFTER. It had 40 years to sort out what needed attention. Damn, I should think we learned something.<br /><br />The sad point is that we learned so little. The fact that the two books can be compared at all is telling - it's painfully indicative that, even with all that 'testing' and pro-active communication, so little has been improved. Hell, JB, you have to scrape for evidence of improvement. That's just bloody sad.<br /><br />Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-10318089674113446262015-12-22T04:01:57.308-08:002015-12-22T04:01:57.308-08:00@ Alexis:
I don't think it fails to give good...@ Alexis:<br /><br />I don't think it fails to give good advice on creating and running campaigns; to the contrary, I think it is excellent in this regard, and accomplishes "more with less" in providing explanation for the aspiring DM. I discussed that in the prior posts (this is the 5th posting the series). Here I'm only talking about its guidance with regard to "adventure creation" which, I suppose, depends on your interpretation of what an adventure is. As you say, it offers little in regard to creating dungeon sites.<br /><br />I'm sure the conventions of your youth included at least some individuals who received some additional information...either mentoring, magazine articles, a "basic" edition, or similar. My comparison is looking at the DMG in a vacuum, and seeing what info it conveys by itself.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-45623408088136540512015-12-22T01:37:20.416-08:002015-12-22T01:37:20.416-08:00The DMG, Player's Handbook and Monster Manual ...The DMG, Player's Handbook and Monster Manual were all given to me the same Christmas, 4 months after I began playing the game. These three were the first rule books I owned and had unlimited access to.<br /><br />No one, absolutely no one, in 1979 had the slightest impression that the DMG was a "stand alone" rule book. It was perfectly clear to all the people I associated with and played with that you needed all three books to play and that they had all the basic content that was needed. I vouch for that personally.<br /><br />Funny that so many of us, many many hundreds if I remember those early conventions in the 80s, managed to somehow play this 'incomplete' game, so-called. I don't remember anyone, at the time, suggesting we turn to Moldvay or any sort of Basic set for 'answers' to our questions. As I remember, we simply decided to house rule what we needed.<br /><br />The DMG gives terrible, terrible advice on dungeon building. No question about it, I always felt that awful example of a dungeon was one of the things/ideals that poisoned campaigns in those days. But the DMG not give a good idea (a solid direction) of how a campaign should be run?<br /><br />Horseshit. Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4143435314932633148.post-20927147399749069062015-12-21T19:51:14.476-08:002015-12-21T19:51:14.476-08:00Just got my copy of the DMG1 premium reprint. You&...Just got my copy of the DMG1 premium reprint. You're spot on about it seeming more like a guide for moderately-experienced DMs of previous iterations of D&D; I'd say that this is also true to a certain extent with the second and third books of OD&D. (I think one of the few improvements of DMG for AD&D 2nd Edition was that it gave some advice for developing adventures, although it still fails to give *any* concrete examples for the novice.) That being said, I still see myself using the DMG1 as a reference book for any and all "old-school" games I run (including B/X and AD&D2).Fuzzy Skinnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10606454596061907461noreply@blogger.com